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How can I wire 7 outdoor posts correctly?
How do I wire a receptacle and a light switch?How can I extend a circuit so I can plug in my under cabinet lighting?Outdoor lighting: use 12V transformer or 220 V mains? And use RCD or not?How do I properly wire this outdoor junction box?Can I use auto primary wire to add a new receptacle in my garage?Installing an outdoor inlet for a portable generatorHow can I replace a lamp postDo I need exterior rated electrical cable to add a house mounted electrical outlet or disconnect switchCorrectly wiring GFCI with two hot linesTurn 1 Switch Into 3 Switches That Control Outdoor Lighting?
I've seen a few posts on how to wire a single post/column for lighting outdoor but I can't find anything that relates to multiple posts/columns.
I have 7 posts/columns outdoor and I'd like to add lighting at the top of each post. These posts/columns will be used with a fence (in case you are trying to visualize this).
So far this is what I understand I need to do in a nutshell:
- Dig a trench of 18" and bury wiring with PVC piping
- Use existing outdoor GFCI and extend your wiring from that outlet as long as you are not overloading the circuit
- Use a wiring hub that runs power from the outlet being used to the main hub input and then have separate outs from the same hub running to each lamp that will go to each post/column
Here is where I need some guidance:
- What is a good hub to use outdoor? When searching online, I only find extension cords hubs. This isn't what I need. Does it have a different/formal name?
- My run from the outlet at the house to the hub by the posts/columns would be about 60 feet. If I position the hub midpoint of all posts/columns, I have about 40 feet each way (left or right) to the furthest point to supply cable to each lamp on each post/column. Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop? If so, which one and how do I introduce this?
- I've read that looping or daisy chaining just makes it more complex trying to maintain adequate voltage (evenly) on all post so a hub is recommended. Is this correct?
I have a basic understanding of electrical and wiring. I've done some smaller projects at home so tackling this isn't a concern. I'd just like to know what are the right components I need to ensure this is done correctly
electrical wiring outdoor
New contributor
add a comment |
I've seen a few posts on how to wire a single post/column for lighting outdoor but I can't find anything that relates to multiple posts/columns.
I have 7 posts/columns outdoor and I'd like to add lighting at the top of each post. These posts/columns will be used with a fence (in case you are trying to visualize this).
So far this is what I understand I need to do in a nutshell:
- Dig a trench of 18" and bury wiring with PVC piping
- Use existing outdoor GFCI and extend your wiring from that outlet as long as you are not overloading the circuit
- Use a wiring hub that runs power from the outlet being used to the main hub input and then have separate outs from the same hub running to each lamp that will go to each post/column
Here is where I need some guidance:
- What is a good hub to use outdoor? When searching online, I only find extension cords hubs. This isn't what I need. Does it have a different/formal name?
- My run from the outlet at the house to the hub by the posts/columns would be about 60 feet. If I position the hub midpoint of all posts/columns, I have about 40 feet each way (left or right) to the furthest point to supply cable to each lamp on each post/column. Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop? If so, which one and how do I introduce this?
- I've read that looping or daisy chaining just makes it more complex trying to maintain adequate voltage (evenly) on all post so a hub is recommended. Is this correct?
I have a basic understanding of electrical and wiring. I've done some smaller projects at home so tackling this isn't a concern. I'd just like to know what are the right components I need to ensure this is done correctly
electrical wiring outdoor
New contributor
1
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
1
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I've seen a few posts on how to wire a single post/column for lighting outdoor but I can't find anything that relates to multiple posts/columns.
I have 7 posts/columns outdoor and I'd like to add lighting at the top of each post. These posts/columns will be used with a fence (in case you are trying to visualize this).
So far this is what I understand I need to do in a nutshell:
- Dig a trench of 18" and bury wiring with PVC piping
- Use existing outdoor GFCI and extend your wiring from that outlet as long as you are not overloading the circuit
- Use a wiring hub that runs power from the outlet being used to the main hub input and then have separate outs from the same hub running to each lamp that will go to each post/column
Here is where I need some guidance:
- What is a good hub to use outdoor? When searching online, I only find extension cords hubs. This isn't what I need. Does it have a different/formal name?
- My run from the outlet at the house to the hub by the posts/columns would be about 60 feet. If I position the hub midpoint of all posts/columns, I have about 40 feet each way (left or right) to the furthest point to supply cable to each lamp on each post/column. Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop? If so, which one and how do I introduce this?
- I've read that looping or daisy chaining just makes it more complex trying to maintain adequate voltage (evenly) on all post so a hub is recommended. Is this correct?
I have a basic understanding of electrical and wiring. I've done some smaller projects at home so tackling this isn't a concern. I'd just like to know what are the right components I need to ensure this is done correctly
electrical wiring outdoor
New contributor
I've seen a few posts on how to wire a single post/column for lighting outdoor but I can't find anything that relates to multiple posts/columns.
I have 7 posts/columns outdoor and I'd like to add lighting at the top of each post. These posts/columns will be used with a fence (in case you are trying to visualize this).
So far this is what I understand I need to do in a nutshell:
- Dig a trench of 18" and bury wiring with PVC piping
- Use existing outdoor GFCI and extend your wiring from that outlet as long as you are not overloading the circuit
- Use a wiring hub that runs power from the outlet being used to the main hub input and then have separate outs from the same hub running to each lamp that will go to each post/column
Here is where I need some guidance:
- What is a good hub to use outdoor? When searching online, I only find extension cords hubs. This isn't what I need. Does it have a different/formal name?
- My run from the outlet at the house to the hub by the posts/columns would be about 60 feet. If I position the hub midpoint of all posts/columns, I have about 40 feet each way (left or right) to the furthest point to supply cable to each lamp on each post/column. Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop? If so, which one and how do I introduce this?
- I've read that looping or daisy chaining just makes it more complex trying to maintain adequate voltage (evenly) on all post so a hub is recommended. Is this correct?
I have a basic understanding of electrical and wiring. I've done some smaller projects at home so tackling this isn't a concern. I'd just like to know what are the right components I need to ensure this is done correctly
electrical wiring outdoor
electrical wiring outdoor
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked 11 hours ago
Tito ValentinTito Valentin
82
82
New contributor
New contributor
1
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
1
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
1
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago
1
1
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
1
1
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
A few specific points:
- Use existing outdoor GFCI
Because this is outdoors, it needs to be GFCI protected if there are any receptacles in the circuit outdoors. As noted by Harper, a circuit used only for lighting does not necessarily need GFCI protection. But the original question mentions a receptacle, so we'll consider GFCI to be a requirement. If you can actually put the GFCI protection inside the building (e.g., either at an upstream receptacle or using a GFCI breaker instead of a plain breaker), that will eliminate exposure of the relatively sensitive GFCI electronics to wind/rain/etc. and generally make it last longer.
- Use a wiring hub
That sounds to me like computer networking lingo. In the case of simple lighting, all you are connecting is power (hot/neutral/ground). A "hub" is simply a junction box that has all the wires connected to it - in this case "all in one" would be 1 in, 7 out = 8 x 2 = 16 wires (plus grounds) which is not a big deal. If your "hub" is simply a box at one post then it is 1 in, 3 out (1 to left, 1 to right, 1 to light in the same post) and the other posts just have 3 sets of wires - 1 in, 1 out, 1 to light in the same post (except for the post on each end). Nothing "special" - just ordinary wiring.
- Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop?
Voltage drop depends on both distance and current. Using an online calculator I get 0.42% drop (== "nothing") on 100 ft. of 14 AWG with 1 Amp load. With a 10 Amp load, it is a more significant 4.21%, and switching to 12 AWG with 10 Amp load gives 2.65% (which is not "nothing" but still quite low).
FYI, while 14 AWG is plenty for this type of circuit, if the breaker is a 20 Amp breaker then you must stick with 12 AWG (or larger) wire or replace the breaker with 15 Amp. If this circuit is shared with receptacles as described then if it is 20 Amp go with 12 AWG and keep the breaker 20 Amp so that you don't limit your receptacle loads as much with the extra load of the lighting.
Bottom line: with the distances you are talking about and modern LED lighting, this is just not much of an issue. If each of the 7 posts has a 60 W LED fixture (that is a LOT of light), that is 1/2 Amp per fixture = 3.5 Amps total. So unless you are going to waste energy on halogen floodlights, voltage drop is really not a problem.
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Since you are planning on using PVC conduit (this is different than PVC pipe) I would use thwn wire, (most thhn wire is dual rated as thwn or for use in a damp wet location). You would run your conduit to each fixture and daisy chain all the fixtures. I have seen folks run 1 pipe up and 1 back down to make the wire pull easier but I just use a T and 1 pipe to each fixture both methods are legal I think a single pipe looks cleaner.
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Hubs are not a thing in mains electrical wiring. All your splices need to be inside junction boxes, and those junction box covers need to be accessible without tools. You can't bury them, for instance.
Realistically you will probably need to bring conduit up to each pole base, going from pole to pole, and make the splices inside the pole base. Most poles provide an access point for this.
As far as voltage drop, your fears are unfounded.
Let's presume absolute worst case of the following: 120V lighting (use 240V)... 60 watt lights (which is an insane amount of light in LED) ... 300 foot string ... and we carry all the power all 300' (which doesn't actually happen)... our voltage drop works out to 4.55%. That is perfectly fine. In practice it will be half that.
If you bumped to 240V lighting it would be 1/8 that. (lighting doesn't need GFCI unless it's near a water feature like a pond, hot tub or pool).
Voltage drop is really not a problem unless you're burning six 400-watt sodium lights or something, but even that would be 6.31% at 240V, actually half that: very acceptable.
But even then. Let's say you want twelve. Okay. You're in conduit. Just run 2 more wires so now you have 2 circuits. Every other light goes on a different circuit. Done. STILL not enough? Run 3 circuits. Run 4. You hit a hard limit at 4 circuits.
Wait. You need more still? Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights which cover the same space at 1/3 the power because they are much better-aimed. You can support about 70 of those.
More STILL? Okay, bump the conduit to 3/4" and the wire to #10. Now you can push the wires to 16A breaker limits instead of the 10A we were holding back at, and still have sane voltage drop. So 15,360 watts of lighting.
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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A few specific points:
- Use existing outdoor GFCI
Because this is outdoors, it needs to be GFCI protected if there are any receptacles in the circuit outdoors. As noted by Harper, a circuit used only for lighting does not necessarily need GFCI protection. But the original question mentions a receptacle, so we'll consider GFCI to be a requirement. If you can actually put the GFCI protection inside the building (e.g., either at an upstream receptacle or using a GFCI breaker instead of a plain breaker), that will eliminate exposure of the relatively sensitive GFCI electronics to wind/rain/etc. and generally make it last longer.
- Use a wiring hub
That sounds to me like computer networking lingo. In the case of simple lighting, all you are connecting is power (hot/neutral/ground). A "hub" is simply a junction box that has all the wires connected to it - in this case "all in one" would be 1 in, 7 out = 8 x 2 = 16 wires (plus grounds) which is not a big deal. If your "hub" is simply a box at one post then it is 1 in, 3 out (1 to left, 1 to right, 1 to light in the same post) and the other posts just have 3 sets of wires - 1 in, 1 out, 1 to light in the same post (except for the post on each end). Nothing "special" - just ordinary wiring.
- Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop?
Voltage drop depends on both distance and current. Using an online calculator I get 0.42% drop (== "nothing") on 100 ft. of 14 AWG with 1 Amp load. With a 10 Amp load, it is a more significant 4.21%, and switching to 12 AWG with 10 Amp load gives 2.65% (which is not "nothing" but still quite low).
FYI, while 14 AWG is plenty for this type of circuit, if the breaker is a 20 Amp breaker then you must stick with 12 AWG (or larger) wire or replace the breaker with 15 Amp. If this circuit is shared with receptacles as described then if it is 20 Amp go with 12 AWG and keep the breaker 20 Amp so that you don't limit your receptacle loads as much with the extra load of the lighting.
Bottom line: with the distances you are talking about and modern LED lighting, this is just not much of an issue. If each of the 7 posts has a 60 W LED fixture (that is a LOT of light), that is 1/2 Amp per fixture = 3.5 Amps total. So unless you are going to waste energy on halogen floodlights, voltage drop is really not a problem.
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
add a comment |
A few specific points:
- Use existing outdoor GFCI
Because this is outdoors, it needs to be GFCI protected if there are any receptacles in the circuit outdoors. As noted by Harper, a circuit used only for lighting does not necessarily need GFCI protection. But the original question mentions a receptacle, so we'll consider GFCI to be a requirement. If you can actually put the GFCI protection inside the building (e.g., either at an upstream receptacle or using a GFCI breaker instead of a plain breaker), that will eliminate exposure of the relatively sensitive GFCI electronics to wind/rain/etc. and generally make it last longer.
- Use a wiring hub
That sounds to me like computer networking lingo. In the case of simple lighting, all you are connecting is power (hot/neutral/ground). A "hub" is simply a junction box that has all the wires connected to it - in this case "all in one" would be 1 in, 7 out = 8 x 2 = 16 wires (plus grounds) which is not a big deal. If your "hub" is simply a box at one post then it is 1 in, 3 out (1 to left, 1 to right, 1 to light in the same post) and the other posts just have 3 sets of wires - 1 in, 1 out, 1 to light in the same post (except for the post on each end). Nothing "special" - just ordinary wiring.
- Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop?
Voltage drop depends on both distance and current. Using an online calculator I get 0.42% drop (== "nothing") on 100 ft. of 14 AWG with 1 Amp load. With a 10 Amp load, it is a more significant 4.21%, and switching to 12 AWG with 10 Amp load gives 2.65% (which is not "nothing" but still quite low).
FYI, while 14 AWG is plenty for this type of circuit, if the breaker is a 20 Amp breaker then you must stick with 12 AWG (or larger) wire or replace the breaker with 15 Amp. If this circuit is shared with receptacles as described then if it is 20 Amp go with 12 AWG and keep the breaker 20 Amp so that you don't limit your receptacle loads as much with the extra load of the lighting.
Bottom line: with the distances you are talking about and modern LED lighting, this is just not much of an issue. If each of the 7 posts has a 60 W LED fixture (that is a LOT of light), that is 1/2 Amp per fixture = 3.5 Amps total. So unless you are going to waste energy on halogen floodlights, voltage drop is really not a problem.
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
add a comment |
A few specific points:
- Use existing outdoor GFCI
Because this is outdoors, it needs to be GFCI protected if there are any receptacles in the circuit outdoors. As noted by Harper, a circuit used only for lighting does not necessarily need GFCI protection. But the original question mentions a receptacle, so we'll consider GFCI to be a requirement. If you can actually put the GFCI protection inside the building (e.g., either at an upstream receptacle or using a GFCI breaker instead of a plain breaker), that will eliminate exposure of the relatively sensitive GFCI electronics to wind/rain/etc. and generally make it last longer.
- Use a wiring hub
That sounds to me like computer networking lingo. In the case of simple lighting, all you are connecting is power (hot/neutral/ground). A "hub" is simply a junction box that has all the wires connected to it - in this case "all in one" would be 1 in, 7 out = 8 x 2 = 16 wires (plus grounds) which is not a big deal. If your "hub" is simply a box at one post then it is 1 in, 3 out (1 to left, 1 to right, 1 to light in the same post) and the other posts just have 3 sets of wires - 1 in, 1 out, 1 to light in the same post (except for the post on each end). Nothing "special" - just ordinary wiring.
- Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop?
Voltage drop depends on both distance and current. Using an online calculator I get 0.42% drop (== "nothing") on 100 ft. of 14 AWG with 1 Amp load. With a 10 Amp load, it is a more significant 4.21%, and switching to 12 AWG with 10 Amp load gives 2.65% (which is not "nothing" but still quite low).
FYI, while 14 AWG is plenty for this type of circuit, if the breaker is a 20 Amp breaker then you must stick with 12 AWG (or larger) wire or replace the breaker with 15 Amp. If this circuit is shared with receptacles as described then if it is 20 Amp go with 12 AWG and keep the breaker 20 Amp so that you don't limit your receptacle loads as much with the extra load of the lighting.
Bottom line: with the distances you are talking about and modern LED lighting, this is just not much of an issue. If each of the 7 posts has a 60 W LED fixture (that is a LOT of light), that is 1/2 Amp per fixture = 3.5 Amps total. So unless you are going to waste energy on halogen floodlights, voltage drop is really not a problem.
A few specific points:
- Use existing outdoor GFCI
Because this is outdoors, it needs to be GFCI protected if there are any receptacles in the circuit outdoors. As noted by Harper, a circuit used only for lighting does not necessarily need GFCI protection. But the original question mentions a receptacle, so we'll consider GFCI to be a requirement. If you can actually put the GFCI protection inside the building (e.g., either at an upstream receptacle or using a GFCI breaker instead of a plain breaker), that will eliminate exposure of the relatively sensitive GFCI electronics to wind/rain/etc. and generally make it last longer.
- Use a wiring hub
That sounds to me like computer networking lingo. In the case of simple lighting, all you are connecting is power (hot/neutral/ground). A "hub" is simply a junction box that has all the wires connected to it - in this case "all in one" would be 1 in, 7 out = 8 x 2 = 16 wires (plus grounds) which is not a big deal. If your "hub" is simply a box at one post then it is 1 in, 3 out (1 to left, 1 to right, 1 to light in the same post) and the other posts just have 3 sets of wires - 1 in, 1 out, 1 to light in the same post (except for the post on each end). Nothing "special" - just ordinary wiring.
- Do I need some sort of amplifier so that I don't experience voltage drop?
Voltage drop depends on both distance and current. Using an online calculator I get 0.42% drop (== "nothing") on 100 ft. of 14 AWG with 1 Amp load. With a 10 Amp load, it is a more significant 4.21%, and switching to 12 AWG with 10 Amp load gives 2.65% (which is not "nothing" but still quite low).
FYI, while 14 AWG is plenty for this type of circuit, if the breaker is a 20 Amp breaker then you must stick with 12 AWG (or larger) wire or replace the breaker with 15 Amp. If this circuit is shared with receptacles as described then if it is 20 Amp go with 12 AWG and keep the breaker 20 Amp so that you don't limit your receptacle loads as much with the extra load of the lighting.
Bottom line: with the distances you are talking about and modern LED lighting, this is just not much of an issue. If each of the 7 posts has a 60 W LED fixture (that is a LOT of light), that is 1/2 Amp per fixture = 3.5 Amps total. So unless you are going to waste energy on halogen floodlights, voltage drop is really not a problem.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
manassehkatzmanassehkatz
9,6551336
9,6551336
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
1
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Makes sense! Thanks for the info! To recap, daisy chain should be fine with no hub and since I'm using LED's, it should be efficient enough where voltage drop isn't an issue at all
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
Correct. But do remember (a) consider carefully where your GFCI (if not already at the breaker) is installed and (b) 14 AWG is OK unless you are on a 20 A circuit.
– manassehkatz
8 hours ago
1
1
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
got it!...thanks!
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Since you are planning on using PVC conduit (this is different than PVC pipe) I would use thwn wire, (most thhn wire is dual rated as thwn or for use in a damp wet location). You would run your conduit to each fixture and daisy chain all the fixtures. I have seen folks run 1 pipe up and 1 back down to make the wire pull easier but I just use a T and 1 pipe to each fixture both methods are legal I think a single pipe looks cleaner.
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Since you are planning on using PVC conduit (this is different than PVC pipe) I would use thwn wire, (most thhn wire is dual rated as thwn or for use in a damp wet location). You would run your conduit to each fixture and daisy chain all the fixtures. I have seen folks run 1 pipe up and 1 back down to make the wire pull easier but I just use a T and 1 pipe to each fixture both methods are legal I think a single pipe looks cleaner.
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Since you are planning on using PVC conduit (this is different than PVC pipe) I would use thwn wire, (most thhn wire is dual rated as thwn or for use in a damp wet location). You would run your conduit to each fixture and daisy chain all the fixtures. I have seen folks run 1 pipe up and 1 back down to make the wire pull easier but I just use a T and 1 pipe to each fixture both methods are legal I think a single pipe looks cleaner.
Since you are planning on using PVC conduit (this is different than PVC pipe) I would use thwn wire, (most thhn wire is dual rated as thwn or for use in a damp wet location). You would run your conduit to each fixture and daisy chain all the fixtures. I have seen folks run 1 pipe up and 1 back down to make the wire pull easier but I just use a T and 1 pipe to each fixture both methods are legal I think a single pipe looks cleaner.
answered 10 hours ago
Ed BealEd Beal
34.1k12148
34.1k12148
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
Thanks for the response! What about using a hub? My concern with daisy chain is voltage drop the further I go with my runs. Between each column, it's about 10' across and 6 feet up the column.
– Tito Valentin
10 hours ago
1
1
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
With such a low draw I would not be concerned with voltage drop. We could do the calculations but only a total of 3.5 amps with #12 wire it will not be a problem. I have LED's in my riding arena I think the wire run from the panel to the last one is pushing 200' with a total draw of 12+ amps and everything works fine.
– Ed Beal
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Hubs are not a thing in mains electrical wiring. All your splices need to be inside junction boxes, and those junction box covers need to be accessible without tools. You can't bury them, for instance.
Realistically you will probably need to bring conduit up to each pole base, going from pole to pole, and make the splices inside the pole base. Most poles provide an access point for this.
As far as voltage drop, your fears are unfounded.
Let's presume absolute worst case of the following: 120V lighting (use 240V)... 60 watt lights (which is an insane amount of light in LED) ... 300 foot string ... and we carry all the power all 300' (which doesn't actually happen)... our voltage drop works out to 4.55%. That is perfectly fine. In practice it will be half that.
If you bumped to 240V lighting it would be 1/8 that. (lighting doesn't need GFCI unless it's near a water feature like a pond, hot tub or pool).
Voltage drop is really not a problem unless you're burning six 400-watt sodium lights or something, but even that would be 6.31% at 240V, actually half that: very acceptable.
But even then. Let's say you want twelve. Okay. You're in conduit. Just run 2 more wires so now you have 2 circuits. Every other light goes on a different circuit. Done. STILL not enough? Run 3 circuits. Run 4. You hit a hard limit at 4 circuits.
Wait. You need more still? Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights which cover the same space at 1/3 the power because they are much better-aimed. You can support about 70 of those.
More STILL? Okay, bump the conduit to 3/4" and the wire to #10. Now you can push the wires to 16A breaker limits instead of the 10A we were holding back at, and still have sane voltage drop. So 15,360 watts of lighting.
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Hubs are not a thing in mains electrical wiring. All your splices need to be inside junction boxes, and those junction box covers need to be accessible without tools. You can't bury them, for instance.
Realistically you will probably need to bring conduit up to each pole base, going from pole to pole, and make the splices inside the pole base. Most poles provide an access point for this.
As far as voltage drop, your fears are unfounded.
Let's presume absolute worst case of the following: 120V lighting (use 240V)... 60 watt lights (which is an insane amount of light in LED) ... 300 foot string ... and we carry all the power all 300' (which doesn't actually happen)... our voltage drop works out to 4.55%. That is perfectly fine. In practice it will be half that.
If you bumped to 240V lighting it would be 1/8 that. (lighting doesn't need GFCI unless it's near a water feature like a pond, hot tub or pool).
Voltage drop is really not a problem unless you're burning six 400-watt sodium lights or something, but even that would be 6.31% at 240V, actually half that: very acceptable.
But even then. Let's say you want twelve. Okay. You're in conduit. Just run 2 more wires so now you have 2 circuits. Every other light goes on a different circuit. Done. STILL not enough? Run 3 circuits. Run 4. You hit a hard limit at 4 circuits.
Wait. You need more still? Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights which cover the same space at 1/3 the power because they are much better-aimed. You can support about 70 of those.
More STILL? Okay, bump the conduit to 3/4" and the wire to #10. Now you can push the wires to 16A breaker limits instead of the 10A we were holding back at, and still have sane voltage drop. So 15,360 watts of lighting.
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Hubs are not a thing in mains electrical wiring. All your splices need to be inside junction boxes, and those junction box covers need to be accessible without tools. You can't bury them, for instance.
Realistically you will probably need to bring conduit up to each pole base, going from pole to pole, and make the splices inside the pole base. Most poles provide an access point for this.
As far as voltage drop, your fears are unfounded.
Let's presume absolute worst case of the following: 120V lighting (use 240V)... 60 watt lights (which is an insane amount of light in LED) ... 300 foot string ... and we carry all the power all 300' (which doesn't actually happen)... our voltage drop works out to 4.55%. That is perfectly fine. In practice it will be half that.
If you bumped to 240V lighting it would be 1/8 that. (lighting doesn't need GFCI unless it's near a water feature like a pond, hot tub or pool).
Voltage drop is really not a problem unless you're burning six 400-watt sodium lights or something, but even that would be 6.31% at 240V, actually half that: very acceptable.
But even then. Let's say you want twelve. Okay. You're in conduit. Just run 2 more wires so now you have 2 circuits. Every other light goes on a different circuit. Done. STILL not enough? Run 3 circuits. Run 4. You hit a hard limit at 4 circuits.
Wait. You need more still? Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights which cover the same space at 1/3 the power because they are much better-aimed. You can support about 70 of those.
More STILL? Okay, bump the conduit to 3/4" and the wire to #10. Now you can push the wires to 16A breaker limits instead of the 10A we were holding back at, and still have sane voltage drop. So 15,360 watts of lighting.
Hubs are not a thing in mains electrical wiring. All your splices need to be inside junction boxes, and those junction box covers need to be accessible without tools. You can't bury them, for instance.
Realistically you will probably need to bring conduit up to each pole base, going from pole to pole, and make the splices inside the pole base. Most poles provide an access point for this.
As far as voltage drop, your fears are unfounded.
Let's presume absolute worst case of the following: 120V lighting (use 240V)... 60 watt lights (which is an insane amount of light in LED) ... 300 foot string ... and we carry all the power all 300' (which doesn't actually happen)... our voltage drop works out to 4.55%. That is perfectly fine. In practice it will be half that.
If you bumped to 240V lighting it would be 1/8 that. (lighting doesn't need GFCI unless it's near a water feature like a pond, hot tub or pool).
Voltage drop is really not a problem unless you're burning six 400-watt sodium lights or something, but even that would be 6.31% at 240V, actually half that: very acceptable.
But even then. Let's say you want twelve. Okay. You're in conduit. Just run 2 more wires so now you have 2 circuits. Every other light goes on a different circuit. Done. STILL not enough? Run 3 circuits. Run 4. You hit a hard limit at 4 circuits.
Wait. You need more still? Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights which cover the same space at 1/3 the power because they are much better-aimed. You can support about 70 of those.
More STILL? Okay, bump the conduit to 3/4" and the wire to #10. Now you can push the wires to 16A breaker limits instead of the 10A we were holding back at, and still have sane voltage drop. So 15,360 watts of lighting.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
HarperHarper
73.7k448148
73.7k448148
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
His "hub" would be a handhole-type underground box, by the way :)
– ThreePhaseEel
10 hours ago
1
1
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
At the rate you're going, there will be an arc welder on top of each post...
– manassehkatz
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
"Okay. Dump the sodium lights and go with LED lights " It's worth doing that anyway...
– UKMonkey
9 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
Thanks a bunch for the help. This clarifies a lot
– Tito Valentin
8 hours ago
1
1
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
@EdBeal Really? How do you access them for maintenance? Or even find them?
– Harper
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Tito Valentin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Tito Valentin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Tito Valentin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Tito Valentin is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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1
Are you totally married to using incandescent lighting? Or is LED a possibility? Is this 12V/low voltage lighting?
– Harper
10 hours ago
@Harper I saw no mention of incandescent - I'd sure hope OP isn't planning on incandescent or halogen for a new install. As far as low voltage, that thought crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my answer.
– manassehkatz
10 hours ago
1
I'm going for LED for sure
– Tito Valentin
9 hours ago
First you need to decide whether you will use low-voltage fixtures or regular 120V fixtures (or 240V in parts of Europe). Low-voltage fixtures make things a lot less complicated for the novice, in that they are largely exempt from electrical code rules (at least in the US). If using 120v (or higher) fixtures you must generally conform to "code", and that requires a lot of effort for the novice.
– Hot Licks
6 hours ago