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What to do when moving next to a bird sanctuary with a loosely-domesticated cat?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InHow to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely?Why does touching my cat's hindquarters make him bite his paws?Moving has caused my cat's night-life to eat away at my actual lifeCat bites aggressively when his back is touchedDesperately need help with incredibly aggressive catNeed some help with a bird injury. Urgent!Will my cat ever be the same?What are the signs that my cat is not happy playing with my toddler son?moving with a stray catCat who is normally docile freaks out when a neighborhood cat comes onto our porch, despite getting along well with our other cats. Why?How to treat injured female pigeon?










11















I'm about to move and a really promising location in a new city and it's surrounded by a large forest and bird sanctuary. That's great to me, but to my cat I suspect it will mean the beginning of his reign as a genocidal maniac against the local birds. On the one hand, regardless of where I move it seems this cat will be a bane on wildlife. On the other hand, given that this is a bird sanctuary, it feels particularly wrong to move there with this cat and just let it do its thing.



TL;DR skipping details on bottom: 3 year old Cat is very active and violent, otherwise a good cat to us humans. Never able to keep a collar or even harnesses on him. We rescued him off the streets and he's only semi-domesticated, keeping him indoors seems like barely an option.



With all that in mind, what can we do regarding this move and this cat to minimize disturbance to the bird sanctuary? Is it a no go, either we don't move there or we give away the cat? Is there any training or equipment we can use to minimize him disturbing the bird sanctuary? We could try to force him to be an indoor cat but I don't think he'll handle that well, it seems very against his nature. We could just let him do his thing, but we care a lot about the forest and know that cats can wreak havoc on its wildlife.




Some background on the cat: my partner and I met this cat as it meowed from under a porch as we were discussing getting a cat, an idea that we'd been considering for a few weeks. It was mid-February in a northern climate and very cold and snowy. We meowed at the cat for a bit and pretty fast he came and met us. We inspected the cat, picking him up and checking his fur and body out. He was pretty clean, no fleas we could see, seemed to be in good health. His paws and teeth indicated that this cat had been leaving outdoors for at least a few months, and he was mature but <1 year old from what the vet said.



We've had this cat for a few years now. He was a real terror at first in terms of violence; he was mostly playful and not that aggressive but he was strong and intense in playing, would attack our feet and attack us at night if he had the chance. Over time and being neutered he's gotten better in some ways but is still an aggressive, big and tough cat. He used to go outside and disappear for days at a time when we first got him, but he'd keep coming back, even after we moved with him to new rentals locally a few times. Now he'll only go out for a few hours or a day at most, but he still begs to go out, tries to sneak out, and will even start attacking us more often if we refuse to let him out for a few days.



This cat in some ways good and maybe even trainable - extremely food motivated, will walk on a leash, never had any problems using a litter box, minimal scratching of furniture. At the same time, he can be a monster, half-killing chipmunks and leaving dead mice at our door regularly. We've tried collars and even two harnesses and he escaped all of them within days, though we do have him RFID chipped (unless he got rid of that too!)










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

    – Hani Gotc
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

    – Allison C
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

    – Kevin
    4 hours ago















11















I'm about to move and a really promising location in a new city and it's surrounded by a large forest and bird sanctuary. That's great to me, but to my cat I suspect it will mean the beginning of his reign as a genocidal maniac against the local birds. On the one hand, regardless of where I move it seems this cat will be a bane on wildlife. On the other hand, given that this is a bird sanctuary, it feels particularly wrong to move there with this cat and just let it do its thing.



TL;DR skipping details on bottom: 3 year old Cat is very active and violent, otherwise a good cat to us humans. Never able to keep a collar or even harnesses on him. We rescued him off the streets and he's only semi-domesticated, keeping him indoors seems like barely an option.



With all that in mind, what can we do regarding this move and this cat to minimize disturbance to the bird sanctuary? Is it a no go, either we don't move there or we give away the cat? Is there any training or equipment we can use to minimize him disturbing the bird sanctuary? We could try to force him to be an indoor cat but I don't think he'll handle that well, it seems very against his nature. We could just let him do his thing, but we care a lot about the forest and know that cats can wreak havoc on its wildlife.




Some background on the cat: my partner and I met this cat as it meowed from under a porch as we were discussing getting a cat, an idea that we'd been considering for a few weeks. It was mid-February in a northern climate and very cold and snowy. We meowed at the cat for a bit and pretty fast he came and met us. We inspected the cat, picking him up and checking his fur and body out. He was pretty clean, no fleas we could see, seemed to be in good health. His paws and teeth indicated that this cat had been leaving outdoors for at least a few months, and he was mature but <1 year old from what the vet said.



We've had this cat for a few years now. He was a real terror at first in terms of violence; he was mostly playful and not that aggressive but he was strong and intense in playing, would attack our feet and attack us at night if he had the chance. Over time and being neutered he's gotten better in some ways but is still an aggressive, big and tough cat. He used to go outside and disappear for days at a time when we first got him, but he'd keep coming back, even after we moved with him to new rentals locally a few times. Now he'll only go out for a few hours or a day at most, but he still begs to go out, tries to sneak out, and will even start attacking us more often if we refuse to let him out for a few days.



This cat in some ways good and maybe even trainable - extremely food motivated, will walk on a leash, never had any problems using a litter box, minimal scratching of furniture. At the same time, he can be a monster, half-killing chipmunks and leaving dead mice at our door regularly. We've tried collars and even two harnesses and he escaped all of them within days, though we do have him RFID chipped (unless he got rid of that too!)










share|improve this question



















  • 1





    as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

    – Hani Gotc
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

    – Allison C
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

    – Kevin
    4 hours ago













11












11








11








I'm about to move and a really promising location in a new city and it's surrounded by a large forest and bird sanctuary. That's great to me, but to my cat I suspect it will mean the beginning of his reign as a genocidal maniac against the local birds. On the one hand, regardless of where I move it seems this cat will be a bane on wildlife. On the other hand, given that this is a bird sanctuary, it feels particularly wrong to move there with this cat and just let it do its thing.



TL;DR skipping details on bottom: 3 year old Cat is very active and violent, otherwise a good cat to us humans. Never able to keep a collar or even harnesses on him. We rescued him off the streets and he's only semi-domesticated, keeping him indoors seems like barely an option.



With all that in mind, what can we do regarding this move and this cat to minimize disturbance to the bird sanctuary? Is it a no go, either we don't move there or we give away the cat? Is there any training or equipment we can use to minimize him disturbing the bird sanctuary? We could try to force him to be an indoor cat but I don't think he'll handle that well, it seems very against his nature. We could just let him do his thing, but we care a lot about the forest and know that cats can wreak havoc on its wildlife.




Some background on the cat: my partner and I met this cat as it meowed from under a porch as we were discussing getting a cat, an idea that we'd been considering for a few weeks. It was mid-February in a northern climate and very cold and snowy. We meowed at the cat for a bit and pretty fast he came and met us. We inspected the cat, picking him up and checking his fur and body out. He was pretty clean, no fleas we could see, seemed to be in good health. His paws and teeth indicated that this cat had been leaving outdoors for at least a few months, and he was mature but <1 year old from what the vet said.



We've had this cat for a few years now. He was a real terror at first in terms of violence; he was mostly playful and not that aggressive but he was strong and intense in playing, would attack our feet and attack us at night if he had the chance. Over time and being neutered he's gotten better in some ways but is still an aggressive, big and tough cat. He used to go outside and disappear for days at a time when we first got him, but he'd keep coming back, even after we moved with him to new rentals locally a few times. Now he'll only go out for a few hours or a day at most, but he still begs to go out, tries to sneak out, and will even start attacking us more often if we refuse to let him out for a few days.



This cat in some ways good and maybe even trainable - extremely food motivated, will walk on a leash, never had any problems using a litter box, minimal scratching of furniture. At the same time, he can be a monster, half-killing chipmunks and leaving dead mice at our door regularly. We've tried collars and even two harnesses and he escaped all of them within days, though we do have him RFID chipped (unless he got rid of that too!)










share|improve this question
















I'm about to move and a really promising location in a new city and it's surrounded by a large forest and bird sanctuary. That's great to me, but to my cat I suspect it will mean the beginning of his reign as a genocidal maniac against the local birds. On the one hand, regardless of where I move it seems this cat will be a bane on wildlife. On the other hand, given that this is a bird sanctuary, it feels particularly wrong to move there with this cat and just let it do its thing.



TL;DR skipping details on bottom: 3 year old Cat is very active and violent, otherwise a good cat to us humans. Never able to keep a collar or even harnesses on him. We rescued him off the streets and he's only semi-domesticated, keeping him indoors seems like barely an option.



With all that in mind, what can we do regarding this move and this cat to minimize disturbance to the bird sanctuary? Is it a no go, either we don't move there or we give away the cat? Is there any training or equipment we can use to minimize him disturbing the bird sanctuary? We could try to force him to be an indoor cat but I don't think he'll handle that well, it seems very against his nature. We could just let him do his thing, but we care a lot about the forest and know that cats can wreak havoc on its wildlife.




Some background on the cat: my partner and I met this cat as it meowed from under a porch as we were discussing getting a cat, an idea that we'd been considering for a few weeks. It was mid-February in a northern climate and very cold and snowy. We meowed at the cat for a bit and pretty fast he came and met us. We inspected the cat, picking him up and checking his fur and body out. He was pretty clean, no fleas we could see, seemed to be in good health. His paws and teeth indicated that this cat had been leaving outdoors for at least a few months, and he was mature but <1 year old from what the vet said.



We've had this cat for a few years now. He was a real terror at first in terms of violence; he was mostly playful and not that aggressive but he was strong and intense in playing, would attack our feet and attack us at night if he had the chance. Over time and being neutered he's gotten better in some ways but is still an aggressive, big and tough cat. He used to go outside and disappear for days at a time when we first got him, but he'd keep coming back, even after we moved with him to new rentals locally a few times. Now he'll only go out for a few hours or a day at most, but he still begs to go out, tries to sneak out, and will even start attacking us more often if we refuse to let him out for a few days.



This cat in some ways good and maybe even trainable - extremely food motivated, will walk on a leash, never had any problems using a litter box, minimal scratching of furniture. At the same time, he can be a monster, half-killing chipmunks and leaving dead mice at our door regularly. We've tried collars and even two harnesses and he escaped all of them within days, though we do have him RFID chipped (unless he got rid of that too!)







cats aggression birds domestication






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edited 6 hours ago







cr0

















asked 11 hours ago









cr0cr0

203110




203110







  • 1





    as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

    – Hani Gotc
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

    – Allison C
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

    – Kevin
    4 hours ago












  • 1





    as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

    – Hani Gotc
    10 hours ago







  • 3





    energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

    – Allison C
    9 hours ago






  • 1





    Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

    – Kevin
    4 hours ago







1




1





as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

– Hani Gotc
10 hours ago






as long as one can see your cat hunting birds. it's ok. The problem starts when few of them are left LOL. I think your background story is really cool. I guess he's a very cute and lovely cat. good luck

– Hani Gotc
10 hours ago





3




3





energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

– Allison C
9 hours ago





energetic young cat that hunts as cats do =/= feral cat. A feral cat is a legitimately wild animal, and can no more be picked up or handled than a bobcat, lynx, etc. Your cat's just being a prey-driven young male cat with loose boundaries, he's not feral or "semi-feral" at all.

– Allison C
9 hours ago




1




1





Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

– Kevin
4 hours ago





Make sure that you have lots of toys and high places in your house for your cat to play with and climb on. This will be especially important if you decide to make him an indoors-only cat.

– Kevin
4 hours ago










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















12














The best situation for any domestic cat is to live indoors; it would have been an easier transition when he was younger, but it can still be done, if you're willing to endure a period of "misery" for both yourselves and for him as you retrain him. A new location may very well aid in this reconditioning.



If you're neither willing nor able to retrain him as an indoor-only cat, then your next best bet is to secure your backyard and restrict him only to this area. This should include:



  • High fences -- too high to jump over.

  • Low fences -- cats can squeeze into some small spaces, so you'll need to ensure there is no ground clearance; ideally, you should bury a section of the fencing to guarantee the cat can't slip underneath.

  • Dense fences -- Again, cats can squeeze into small spaces, so you'll need to eliminate any potential spaces in the fence where it could slip loose.

  • "Cat proofing" at the top of the fence. This is done by stringing the top with a core surrounded by a free-spinning piece of wide PVC pipe. The pipe should overhand both sides of the fence (you can also add a slanted section of fencing below it, that likewise slants toward your yard). If the fence is too wide for a reasonable sized length of pipe, use two, one angled toward each side of the fence. The goal is to make it impossible for the cat to get a grip anywhere; the pipe will spin if it tries to grip it, and if positioned right, the roller will also prevent the cat from reaching around or under to grab the fence behind it. Keeping the roller toward the outside will prevent nosy climbing wildlife from entering your yard and becoming trapped, which could be a hazard to either them or to your cat, depending on the wildlife.

  • Tree trimming -- Even with a high, low, dense, cat-proofed fence, the cat will still be able to escape if you have a tree with branches reaching over it that he can use to evade all these defenses. Get branches trimmed, or consider adding some cat-proofing to prevent climbing the trunks.

You'll want to spend some time outside "thinking like a cat" as well. Imagine yourself as the cat that wants to get on the other side of your fence, and do your best to hunt down any places you might have overlooked where he could sneak out.



As a bonus, a well cat-proofed fence will also help keep a good amount of wildlife out, too, so while he may have less to hunt, you'll also find fewer gifts from him.



An additional note: A harness is not meant for long-term wear on a cat, and the vast majority of cats hate wearing them. Most cats also don't care much for collars, though can be accustomed to them with time. Cats aren't small dogs, and don't naturally walk on leashes; they're solitary ambush predators, not pack hunters who follow the lead of other members of their pack (ie. human owners). He's certainly not a wild animal from your description, just high energy. A truly feral (or even semi-feral) cat is a wild animal that can't be handled. Your cat's just high energy and could probably stand to have more toys and places to climb in the house.






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  • 1





    That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

    – Richard Tingle
    8 hours ago












  • @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

    – Allison C
    8 hours ago


















5














I see three possible options:



  • Attempt to enclose the garden somehow so that he doesn't have free reign in the bird sanctuary. You'd need pretty tall fences though...


  • Choose a different location.


  • Accept that he is, by nature, a hunter. You don't mention exactly how many years you've had him (and therefore, how old he is), but he'll get lazier as he gets older and won't bother going hunting when he knows his humans will do it for him...






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  • Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

    – cr0
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

    – Nick C
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

    – Hani Gotc
    10 hours ago



















5














Most locations have leash laws that apply to all domestic animals, in most areas they are only enforced on dogs. In an area with a bird sanctuary, it may very well be applied to cats as well.



The risks of moving you cat near a bird sanctuary, may not be just to the local birds.



  • Check the local laws and their enforcement, fines and loss of your cat are possible.


  • Read our post on keeping cats contained






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    5














    Whatever your general opinions on free-roaming cats may be, allowing your cat to hunt in a bird sanctuary definitely sounds like a highly irresponsible thing to do.



    If you'd rather not lock your cat entirely indoors, one option to consider would be to build a secure outdoor enclosure for your cat. Unlike Allison C, I wouldn't rely on just a fence, no matter how "cat-proofed", because cats are really, really good at finding ways over, under or through fences.



    What does work though, in my experience, is simply surrounding a suitable space on all sides with a durable net or wire mesh, and making sure there are no holes large enough for a cat to get through. The details will vary depending on what your new house or apartment is like, but it could be as simple as surrounding a balcony / terrace / patio / veranda or any similar "semi-outdoor" area with cat-proof net or mesh.



    For a practical example, here's one of my parents' cats watching the local wildlife from behind a temporary net set up to close off their new ground floor apartment's patio:



    Photo of a cat in an enclosed patio behind a net



    and here are both of them in winter (one braving the cold outside, one safe and warm inside behind the window), showing the final (semi-)permanent enclosure we built out of chicken wire:



    Photo of two cats in winter with a patio enclosed with chicken wire



    The new structure extends a few meters into the back yard, so that there's room for a small garden inside, including some vines to climb and partly cover the wire fence (not yet visible in these photos). It consists of just a few wooden posts and beams that attach to the existing partition walls between the neighboring patios and support a chicken wire fence between them, with the old nylon net now serving as a roof over it (because cats can climb, you know) and the chicken wire extending some distance underground (because they can dig too — not that either of these two have ever tried).



    We even built a simple lockable gate (half visible on the right side of the second photo) into the fence so that we can still get to the outside (not that there's much there, except some trees and neighbors' back yards) without having to walk around the whole building.



    The important thing to remember (for your peace of mind, and the safety of any birds living nearby) is that cats can squeeze their head through surprisingly small holes if they're sufficiently motivated, e.g. by tasty birds waiting just outside — and if the head gets through, the rest of the cat will most likely follow. (For evidence, see e.g. any of these YouTube videos.) But there are limits, and something like a 1 inch / 2.5 cm mesh size is definitely too small for any adult cat to possibly get through. Meanwhile, it's still large enough that any small birds or rodents that may unwisely enter the enclosure can also easily get out.




    Ps. I wrote most of this answer before noticing the How to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely? thread, which also has some pictures of outdoor cat enclosures. I figured I'd post this anyway, because it's still a valid answer and shows a somewhat different style of enclosure.






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      1














      Get a collar with a bell.



      I'm going to say that the best and easiest way to solve this problem is to get a collar and put a small bell on it. The bell will provide enough warning that the vast majority of birds will have enough warning to escape.



      Yes, you say that you have difficulty keeping a collar on your cat. I admit I don't quite understand this -- it's not like cats can remove their own collars. Maybe you aren't putting the collar on tight enough? Don't strangle your cat, but make it tight enough that it doesn't slip over the head easily or at all. I like using a breakaway collar that the cat can get out of in an emergency but put it on tightly enough that an emergency is unlikely to arise.



      If the issue is that your cat doesn't like the collar and claws at it or whatever, that's a temporary thing. After a few weeks, your cat will probably be fine with it. If the issue is that you're using a breakaway collar and the collar keeps breaking away, just accept that you'll need to buy a replacement collar every few months or so. You mention that a collar only lasts a few days but I suspect that was either a statistical aberration, the collar was improperly attached, or the breakaway device unlatched too easily. Maybe try a different brand.



      A bell and collar is effective and not that big of an expense -- certainly small compared to building a massive fence around your yard or moving elsewhere or other options apparently under consideration.






      share|improve this answer








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      • Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

        – cr0
        26 mins ago


















      1














      I would encourage you to keep trying things, even if they don't seem to work or have not worked in the past.



      As others have suggested, try various things to make indoors more appealing, so he has less of an urge to venture outdoors.



      Play with him. A lot. No, even more than that. Give him an outlet for all that energy.



      If he's really food motivated, it should be possible to train him to accept a collar eventually - just keep at it! And once you do, the right collar can really help out Team Bird. That article cites a small study where a brightly colored collar appeared to reduce Team Cat's kill count by 54% - the article/study are from 2015, but the current website for a company that sells such collars makes (an unsourced) claim of 87%.






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        6 Answers
        6






        active

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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

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        active

        oldest

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        12














        The best situation for any domestic cat is to live indoors; it would have been an easier transition when he was younger, but it can still be done, if you're willing to endure a period of "misery" for both yourselves and for him as you retrain him. A new location may very well aid in this reconditioning.



        If you're neither willing nor able to retrain him as an indoor-only cat, then your next best bet is to secure your backyard and restrict him only to this area. This should include:



        • High fences -- too high to jump over.

        • Low fences -- cats can squeeze into some small spaces, so you'll need to ensure there is no ground clearance; ideally, you should bury a section of the fencing to guarantee the cat can't slip underneath.

        • Dense fences -- Again, cats can squeeze into small spaces, so you'll need to eliminate any potential spaces in the fence where it could slip loose.

        • "Cat proofing" at the top of the fence. This is done by stringing the top with a core surrounded by a free-spinning piece of wide PVC pipe. The pipe should overhand both sides of the fence (you can also add a slanted section of fencing below it, that likewise slants toward your yard). If the fence is too wide for a reasonable sized length of pipe, use two, one angled toward each side of the fence. The goal is to make it impossible for the cat to get a grip anywhere; the pipe will spin if it tries to grip it, and if positioned right, the roller will also prevent the cat from reaching around or under to grab the fence behind it. Keeping the roller toward the outside will prevent nosy climbing wildlife from entering your yard and becoming trapped, which could be a hazard to either them or to your cat, depending on the wildlife.

        • Tree trimming -- Even with a high, low, dense, cat-proofed fence, the cat will still be able to escape if you have a tree with branches reaching over it that he can use to evade all these defenses. Get branches trimmed, or consider adding some cat-proofing to prevent climbing the trunks.

        You'll want to spend some time outside "thinking like a cat" as well. Imagine yourself as the cat that wants to get on the other side of your fence, and do your best to hunt down any places you might have overlooked where he could sneak out.



        As a bonus, a well cat-proofed fence will also help keep a good amount of wildlife out, too, so while he may have less to hunt, you'll also find fewer gifts from him.



        An additional note: A harness is not meant for long-term wear on a cat, and the vast majority of cats hate wearing them. Most cats also don't care much for collars, though can be accustomed to them with time. Cats aren't small dogs, and don't naturally walk on leashes; they're solitary ambush predators, not pack hunters who follow the lead of other members of their pack (ie. human owners). He's certainly not a wild animal from your description, just high energy. A truly feral (or even semi-feral) cat is a wild animal that can't be handled. Your cat's just high energy and could probably stand to have more toys and places to climb in the house.






        share|improve this answer




















        • 1





          That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

          – Richard Tingle
          8 hours ago












        • @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

          – Allison C
          8 hours ago















        12














        The best situation for any domestic cat is to live indoors; it would have been an easier transition when he was younger, but it can still be done, if you're willing to endure a period of "misery" for both yourselves and for him as you retrain him. A new location may very well aid in this reconditioning.



        If you're neither willing nor able to retrain him as an indoor-only cat, then your next best bet is to secure your backyard and restrict him only to this area. This should include:



        • High fences -- too high to jump over.

        • Low fences -- cats can squeeze into some small spaces, so you'll need to ensure there is no ground clearance; ideally, you should bury a section of the fencing to guarantee the cat can't slip underneath.

        • Dense fences -- Again, cats can squeeze into small spaces, so you'll need to eliminate any potential spaces in the fence where it could slip loose.

        • "Cat proofing" at the top of the fence. This is done by stringing the top with a core surrounded by a free-spinning piece of wide PVC pipe. The pipe should overhand both sides of the fence (you can also add a slanted section of fencing below it, that likewise slants toward your yard). If the fence is too wide for a reasonable sized length of pipe, use two, one angled toward each side of the fence. The goal is to make it impossible for the cat to get a grip anywhere; the pipe will spin if it tries to grip it, and if positioned right, the roller will also prevent the cat from reaching around or under to grab the fence behind it. Keeping the roller toward the outside will prevent nosy climbing wildlife from entering your yard and becoming trapped, which could be a hazard to either them or to your cat, depending on the wildlife.

        • Tree trimming -- Even with a high, low, dense, cat-proofed fence, the cat will still be able to escape if you have a tree with branches reaching over it that he can use to evade all these defenses. Get branches trimmed, or consider adding some cat-proofing to prevent climbing the trunks.

        You'll want to spend some time outside "thinking like a cat" as well. Imagine yourself as the cat that wants to get on the other side of your fence, and do your best to hunt down any places you might have overlooked where he could sneak out.



        As a bonus, a well cat-proofed fence will also help keep a good amount of wildlife out, too, so while he may have less to hunt, you'll also find fewer gifts from him.



        An additional note: A harness is not meant for long-term wear on a cat, and the vast majority of cats hate wearing them. Most cats also don't care much for collars, though can be accustomed to them with time. Cats aren't small dogs, and don't naturally walk on leashes; they're solitary ambush predators, not pack hunters who follow the lead of other members of their pack (ie. human owners). He's certainly not a wild animal from your description, just high energy. A truly feral (or even semi-feral) cat is a wild animal that can't be handled. Your cat's just high energy and could probably stand to have more toys and places to climb in the house.






        share|improve this answer




















        • 1





          That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

          – Richard Tingle
          8 hours ago












        • @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

          – Allison C
          8 hours ago













        12












        12








        12







        The best situation for any domestic cat is to live indoors; it would have been an easier transition when he was younger, but it can still be done, if you're willing to endure a period of "misery" for both yourselves and for him as you retrain him. A new location may very well aid in this reconditioning.



        If you're neither willing nor able to retrain him as an indoor-only cat, then your next best bet is to secure your backyard and restrict him only to this area. This should include:



        • High fences -- too high to jump over.

        • Low fences -- cats can squeeze into some small spaces, so you'll need to ensure there is no ground clearance; ideally, you should bury a section of the fencing to guarantee the cat can't slip underneath.

        • Dense fences -- Again, cats can squeeze into small spaces, so you'll need to eliminate any potential spaces in the fence where it could slip loose.

        • "Cat proofing" at the top of the fence. This is done by stringing the top with a core surrounded by a free-spinning piece of wide PVC pipe. The pipe should overhand both sides of the fence (you can also add a slanted section of fencing below it, that likewise slants toward your yard). If the fence is too wide for a reasonable sized length of pipe, use two, one angled toward each side of the fence. The goal is to make it impossible for the cat to get a grip anywhere; the pipe will spin if it tries to grip it, and if positioned right, the roller will also prevent the cat from reaching around or under to grab the fence behind it. Keeping the roller toward the outside will prevent nosy climbing wildlife from entering your yard and becoming trapped, which could be a hazard to either them or to your cat, depending on the wildlife.

        • Tree trimming -- Even with a high, low, dense, cat-proofed fence, the cat will still be able to escape if you have a tree with branches reaching over it that he can use to evade all these defenses. Get branches trimmed, or consider adding some cat-proofing to prevent climbing the trunks.

        You'll want to spend some time outside "thinking like a cat" as well. Imagine yourself as the cat that wants to get on the other side of your fence, and do your best to hunt down any places you might have overlooked where he could sneak out.



        As a bonus, a well cat-proofed fence will also help keep a good amount of wildlife out, too, so while he may have less to hunt, you'll also find fewer gifts from him.



        An additional note: A harness is not meant for long-term wear on a cat, and the vast majority of cats hate wearing them. Most cats also don't care much for collars, though can be accustomed to them with time. Cats aren't small dogs, and don't naturally walk on leashes; they're solitary ambush predators, not pack hunters who follow the lead of other members of their pack (ie. human owners). He's certainly not a wild animal from your description, just high energy. A truly feral (or even semi-feral) cat is a wild animal that can't be handled. Your cat's just high energy and could probably stand to have more toys and places to climb in the house.






        share|improve this answer















        The best situation for any domestic cat is to live indoors; it would have been an easier transition when he was younger, but it can still be done, if you're willing to endure a period of "misery" for both yourselves and for him as you retrain him. A new location may very well aid in this reconditioning.



        If you're neither willing nor able to retrain him as an indoor-only cat, then your next best bet is to secure your backyard and restrict him only to this area. This should include:



        • High fences -- too high to jump over.

        • Low fences -- cats can squeeze into some small spaces, so you'll need to ensure there is no ground clearance; ideally, you should bury a section of the fencing to guarantee the cat can't slip underneath.

        • Dense fences -- Again, cats can squeeze into small spaces, so you'll need to eliminate any potential spaces in the fence where it could slip loose.

        • "Cat proofing" at the top of the fence. This is done by stringing the top with a core surrounded by a free-spinning piece of wide PVC pipe. The pipe should overhand both sides of the fence (you can also add a slanted section of fencing below it, that likewise slants toward your yard). If the fence is too wide for a reasonable sized length of pipe, use two, one angled toward each side of the fence. The goal is to make it impossible for the cat to get a grip anywhere; the pipe will spin if it tries to grip it, and if positioned right, the roller will also prevent the cat from reaching around or under to grab the fence behind it. Keeping the roller toward the outside will prevent nosy climbing wildlife from entering your yard and becoming trapped, which could be a hazard to either them or to your cat, depending on the wildlife.

        • Tree trimming -- Even with a high, low, dense, cat-proofed fence, the cat will still be able to escape if you have a tree with branches reaching over it that he can use to evade all these defenses. Get branches trimmed, or consider adding some cat-proofing to prevent climbing the trunks.

        You'll want to spend some time outside "thinking like a cat" as well. Imagine yourself as the cat that wants to get on the other side of your fence, and do your best to hunt down any places you might have overlooked where he could sneak out.



        As a bonus, a well cat-proofed fence will also help keep a good amount of wildlife out, too, so while he may have less to hunt, you'll also find fewer gifts from him.



        An additional note: A harness is not meant for long-term wear on a cat, and the vast majority of cats hate wearing them. Most cats also don't care much for collars, though can be accustomed to them with time. Cats aren't small dogs, and don't naturally walk on leashes; they're solitary ambush predators, not pack hunters who follow the lead of other members of their pack (ie. human owners). He's certainly not a wild animal from your description, just high energy. A truly feral (or even semi-feral) cat is a wild animal that can't be handled. Your cat's just high energy and could probably stand to have more toys and places to climb in the house.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 8 hours ago

























        answered 8 hours ago









        Allison CAllison C

        1,367320




        1,367320







        • 1





          That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

          – Richard Tingle
          8 hours ago












        • @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

          – Allison C
          8 hours ago












        • 1





          That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

          – Richard Tingle
          8 hours ago












        • @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

          – Allison C
          8 hours ago







        1




        1





        That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

        – Richard Tingle
        8 hours ago






        That cat proofing of the fence should be done in both directions, otherwise you've created a trap for local wildlife/other cats. It's the "The pipe should be toward the inside of the fence" that makes me nervous

        – Richard Tingle
        8 hours ago














        @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

        – Allison C
        8 hours ago





        @RichardTingle Good call, I'll edit that into my answer

        – Allison C
        8 hours ago











        5














        I see three possible options:



        • Attempt to enclose the garden somehow so that he doesn't have free reign in the bird sanctuary. You'd need pretty tall fences though...


        • Choose a different location.


        • Accept that he is, by nature, a hunter. You don't mention exactly how many years you've had him (and therefore, how old he is), but he'll get lazier as he gets older and won't bother going hunting when he knows his humans will do it for him...






        share|improve this answer























        • Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

          – cr0
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

          – Nick C
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

          – Hani Gotc
          10 hours ago
















        5














        I see three possible options:



        • Attempt to enclose the garden somehow so that he doesn't have free reign in the bird sanctuary. You'd need pretty tall fences though...


        • Choose a different location.


        • Accept that he is, by nature, a hunter. You don't mention exactly how many years you've had him (and therefore, how old he is), but he'll get lazier as he gets older and won't bother going hunting when he knows his humans will do it for him...






        share|improve this answer























        • Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

          – cr0
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

          – Nick C
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

          – Hani Gotc
          10 hours ago














        5












        5








        5







        I see three possible options:



        • Attempt to enclose the garden somehow so that he doesn't have free reign in the bird sanctuary. You'd need pretty tall fences though...


        • Choose a different location.


        • Accept that he is, by nature, a hunter. You don't mention exactly how many years you've had him (and therefore, how old he is), but he'll get lazier as he gets older and won't bother going hunting when he knows his humans will do it for him...






        share|improve this answer













        I see three possible options:



        • Attempt to enclose the garden somehow so that he doesn't have free reign in the bird sanctuary. You'd need pretty tall fences though...


        • Choose a different location.


        • Accept that he is, by nature, a hunter. You don't mention exactly how many years you've had him (and therefore, how old he is), but he'll get lazier as he gets older and won't bother going hunting when he knows his humans will do it for him...







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 11 hours ago









        Nick CNick C

        22516




        22516












        • Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

          – cr0
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

          – Nick C
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

          – Hani Gotc
          10 hours ago


















        • Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

          – cr0
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

          – Nick C
          11 hours ago






        • 1





          I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

          – Hani Gotc
          10 hours ago

















        Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

        – cr0
        11 hours ago





        Added age, we've had him for about 3 years. Those do seem like the options. He has gotten more docile over the years but he's also been in a more urban environment, so we worry all the new wildlife will set him off on a newfound sense of predation

        – cr0
        11 hours ago




        1




        1





        So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

        – Nick C
        11 hours ago





        So he's about 4 years old - right in his prime as a hunter! Ours are about 9, and the male only brought home 3 prey last summer - our female is already too lazy to hunt at all!

        – Nick C
        11 hours ago




        1




        1





        I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

        – Hani Gotc
        10 hours ago






        I agree with the third point. besides he's neutered already. On the long run he wont be causing any harm. Like mating with other cats and have kittens.

        – Hani Gotc
        10 hours ago












        5














        Most locations have leash laws that apply to all domestic animals, in most areas they are only enforced on dogs. In an area with a bird sanctuary, it may very well be applied to cats as well.



        The risks of moving you cat near a bird sanctuary, may not be just to the local birds.



        • Check the local laws and their enforcement, fines and loss of your cat are possible.


        • Read our post on keeping cats contained






        share|improve this answer



























          5














          Most locations have leash laws that apply to all domestic animals, in most areas they are only enforced on dogs. In an area with a bird sanctuary, it may very well be applied to cats as well.



          The risks of moving you cat near a bird sanctuary, may not be just to the local birds.



          • Check the local laws and their enforcement, fines and loss of your cat are possible.


          • Read our post on keeping cats contained






          share|improve this answer

























            5












            5








            5







            Most locations have leash laws that apply to all domestic animals, in most areas they are only enforced on dogs. In an area with a bird sanctuary, it may very well be applied to cats as well.



            The risks of moving you cat near a bird sanctuary, may not be just to the local birds.



            • Check the local laws and their enforcement, fines and loss of your cat are possible.


            • Read our post on keeping cats contained






            share|improve this answer













            Most locations have leash laws that apply to all domestic animals, in most areas they are only enforced on dogs. In an area with a bird sanctuary, it may very well be applied to cats as well.



            The risks of moving you cat near a bird sanctuary, may not be just to the local birds.



            • Check the local laws and their enforcement, fines and loss of your cat are possible.


            • Read our post on keeping cats contained







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 9 hours ago









            James JenkinsJames Jenkins

            18.1k2583191




            18.1k2583191





















                5














                Whatever your general opinions on free-roaming cats may be, allowing your cat to hunt in a bird sanctuary definitely sounds like a highly irresponsible thing to do.



                If you'd rather not lock your cat entirely indoors, one option to consider would be to build a secure outdoor enclosure for your cat. Unlike Allison C, I wouldn't rely on just a fence, no matter how "cat-proofed", because cats are really, really good at finding ways over, under or through fences.



                What does work though, in my experience, is simply surrounding a suitable space on all sides with a durable net or wire mesh, and making sure there are no holes large enough for a cat to get through. The details will vary depending on what your new house or apartment is like, but it could be as simple as surrounding a balcony / terrace / patio / veranda or any similar "semi-outdoor" area with cat-proof net or mesh.



                For a practical example, here's one of my parents' cats watching the local wildlife from behind a temporary net set up to close off their new ground floor apartment's patio:



                Photo of a cat in an enclosed patio behind a net



                and here are both of them in winter (one braving the cold outside, one safe and warm inside behind the window), showing the final (semi-)permanent enclosure we built out of chicken wire:



                Photo of two cats in winter with a patio enclosed with chicken wire



                The new structure extends a few meters into the back yard, so that there's room for a small garden inside, including some vines to climb and partly cover the wire fence (not yet visible in these photos). It consists of just a few wooden posts and beams that attach to the existing partition walls between the neighboring patios and support a chicken wire fence between them, with the old nylon net now serving as a roof over it (because cats can climb, you know) and the chicken wire extending some distance underground (because they can dig too — not that either of these two have ever tried).



                We even built a simple lockable gate (half visible on the right side of the second photo) into the fence so that we can still get to the outside (not that there's much there, except some trees and neighbors' back yards) without having to walk around the whole building.



                The important thing to remember (for your peace of mind, and the safety of any birds living nearby) is that cats can squeeze their head through surprisingly small holes if they're sufficiently motivated, e.g. by tasty birds waiting just outside — and if the head gets through, the rest of the cat will most likely follow. (For evidence, see e.g. any of these YouTube videos.) But there are limits, and something like a 1 inch / 2.5 cm mesh size is definitely too small for any adult cat to possibly get through. Meanwhile, it's still large enough that any small birds or rodents that may unwisely enter the enclosure can also easily get out.




                Ps. I wrote most of this answer before noticing the How to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely? thread, which also has some pictures of outdoor cat enclosures. I figured I'd post this anyway, because it's still a valid answer and shows a somewhat different style of enclosure.






                share|improve this answer





























                  5














                  Whatever your general opinions on free-roaming cats may be, allowing your cat to hunt in a bird sanctuary definitely sounds like a highly irresponsible thing to do.



                  If you'd rather not lock your cat entirely indoors, one option to consider would be to build a secure outdoor enclosure for your cat. Unlike Allison C, I wouldn't rely on just a fence, no matter how "cat-proofed", because cats are really, really good at finding ways over, under or through fences.



                  What does work though, in my experience, is simply surrounding a suitable space on all sides with a durable net or wire mesh, and making sure there are no holes large enough for a cat to get through. The details will vary depending on what your new house or apartment is like, but it could be as simple as surrounding a balcony / terrace / patio / veranda or any similar "semi-outdoor" area with cat-proof net or mesh.



                  For a practical example, here's one of my parents' cats watching the local wildlife from behind a temporary net set up to close off their new ground floor apartment's patio:



                  Photo of a cat in an enclosed patio behind a net



                  and here are both of them in winter (one braving the cold outside, one safe and warm inside behind the window), showing the final (semi-)permanent enclosure we built out of chicken wire:



                  Photo of two cats in winter with a patio enclosed with chicken wire



                  The new structure extends a few meters into the back yard, so that there's room for a small garden inside, including some vines to climb and partly cover the wire fence (not yet visible in these photos). It consists of just a few wooden posts and beams that attach to the existing partition walls between the neighboring patios and support a chicken wire fence between them, with the old nylon net now serving as a roof over it (because cats can climb, you know) and the chicken wire extending some distance underground (because they can dig too — not that either of these two have ever tried).



                  We even built a simple lockable gate (half visible on the right side of the second photo) into the fence so that we can still get to the outside (not that there's much there, except some trees and neighbors' back yards) without having to walk around the whole building.



                  The important thing to remember (for your peace of mind, and the safety of any birds living nearby) is that cats can squeeze their head through surprisingly small holes if they're sufficiently motivated, e.g. by tasty birds waiting just outside — and if the head gets through, the rest of the cat will most likely follow. (For evidence, see e.g. any of these YouTube videos.) But there are limits, and something like a 1 inch / 2.5 cm mesh size is definitely too small for any adult cat to possibly get through. Meanwhile, it's still large enough that any small birds or rodents that may unwisely enter the enclosure can also easily get out.




                  Ps. I wrote most of this answer before noticing the How to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely? thread, which also has some pictures of outdoor cat enclosures. I figured I'd post this anyway, because it's still a valid answer and shows a somewhat different style of enclosure.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    5












                    5








                    5







                    Whatever your general opinions on free-roaming cats may be, allowing your cat to hunt in a bird sanctuary definitely sounds like a highly irresponsible thing to do.



                    If you'd rather not lock your cat entirely indoors, one option to consider would be to build a secure outdoor enclosure for your cat. Unlike Allison C, I wouldn't rely on just a fence, no matter how "cat-proofed", because cats are really, really good at finding ways over, under or through fences.



                    What does work though, in my experience, is simply surrounding a suitable space on all sides with a durable net or wire mesh, and making sure there are no holes large enough for a cat to get through. The details will vary depending on what your new house or apartment is like, but it could be as simple as surrounding a balcony / terrace / patio / veranda or any similar "semi-outdoor" area with cat-proof net or mesh.



                    For a practical example, here's one of my parents' cats watching the local wildlife from behind a temporary net set up to close off their new ground floor apartment's patio:



                    Photo of a cat in an enclosed patio behind a net



                    and here are both of them in winter (one braving the cold outside, one safe and warm inside behind the window), showing the final (semi-)permanent enclosure we built out of chicken wire:



                    Photo of two cats in winter with a patio enclosed with chicken wire



                    The new structure extends a few meters into the back yard, so that there's room for a small garden inside, including some vines to climb and partly cover the wire fence (not yet visible in these photos). It consists of just a few wooden posts and beams that attach to the existing partition walls between the neighboring patios and support a chicken wire fence between them, with the old nylon net now serving as a roof over it (because cats can climb, you know) and the chicken wire extending some distance underground (because they can dig too — not that either of these two have ever tried).



                    We even built a simple lockable gate (half visible on the right side of the second photo) into the fence so that we can still get to the outside (not that there's much there, except some trees and neighbors' back yards) without having to walk around the whole building.



                    The important thing to remember (for your peace of mind, and the safety of any birds living nearby) is that cats can squeeze their head through surprisingly small holes if they're sufficiently motivated, e.g. by tasty birds waiting just outside — and if the head gets through, the rest of the cat will most likely follow. (For evidence, see e.g. any of these YouTube videos.) But there are limits, and something like a 1 inch / 2.5 cm mesh size is definitely too small for any adult cat to possibly get through. Meanwhile, it's still large enough that any small birds or rodents that may unwisely enter the enclosure can also easily get out.




                    Ps. I wrote most of this answer before noticing the How to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely? thread, which also has some pictures of outdoor cat enclosures. I figured I'd post this anyway, because it's still a valid answer and shows a somewhat different style of enclosure.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Whatever your general opinions on free-roaming cats may be, allowing your cat to hunt in a bird sanctuary definitely sounds like a highly irresponsible thing to do.



                    If you'd rather not lock your cat entirely indoors, one option to consider would be to build a secure outdoor enclosure for your cat. Unlike Allison C, I wouldn't rely on just a fence, no matter how "cat-proofed", because cats are really, really good at finding ways over, under or through fences.



                    What does work though, in my experience, is simply surrounding a suitable space on all sides with a durable net or wire mesh, and making sure there are no holes large enough for a cat to get through. The details will vary depending on what your new house or apartment is like, but it could be as simple as surrounding a balcony / terrace / patio / veranda or any similar "semi-outdoor" area with cat-proof net or mesh.



                    For a practical example, here's one of my parents' cats watching the local wildlife from behind a temporary net set up to close off their new ground floor apartment's patio:



                    Photo of a cat in an enclosed patio behind a net



                    and here are both of them in winter (one braving the cold outside, one safe and warm inside behind the window), showing the final (semi-)permanent enclosure we built out of chicken wire:



                    Photo of two cats in winter with a patio enclosed with chicken wire



                    The new structure extends a few meters into the back yard, so that there's room for a small garden inside, including some vines to climb and partly cover the wire fence (not yet visible in these photos). It consists of just a few wooden posts and beams that attach to the existing partition walls between the neighboring patios and support a chicken wire fence between them, with the old nylon net now serving as a roof over it (because cats can climb, you know) and the chicken wire extending some distance underground (because they can dig too — not that either of these two have ever tried).



                    We even built a simple lockable gate (half visible on the right side of the second photo) into the fence so that we can still get to the outside (not that there's much there, except some trees and neighbors' back yards) without having to walk around the whole building.



                    The important thing to remember (for your peace of mind, and the safety of any birds living nearby) is that cats can squeeze their head through surprisingly small holes if they're sufficiently motivated, e.g. by tasty birds waiting just outside — and if the head gets through, the rest of the cat will most likely follow. (For evidence, see e.g. any of these YouTube videos.) But there are limits, and something like a 1 inch / 2.5 cm mesh size is definitely too small for any adult cat to possibly get through. Meanwhile, it's still large enough that any small birds or rodents that may unwisely enter the enclosure can also easily get out.




                    Ps. I wrote most of this answer before noticing the How to let an indoor cat have some outdoors time safely? thread, which also has some pictures of outdoor cat enclosures. I figured I'd post this anyway, because it's still a valid answer and shows a somewhat different style of enclosure.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 2 hours ago

























                    answered 5 hours ago









                    Ilmari KaronenIlmari Karonen

                    1714




                    1714





















                        1














                        Get a collar with a bell.



                        I'm going to say that the best and easiest way to solve this problem is to get a collar and put a small bell on it. The bell will provide enough warning that the vast majority of birds will have enough warning to escape.



                        Yes, you say that you have difficulty keeping a collar on your cat. I admit I don't quite understand this -- it's not like cats can remove their own collars. Maybe you aren't putting the collar on tight enough? Don't strangle your cat, but make it tight enough that it doesn't slip over the head easily or at all. I like using a breakaway collar that the cat can get out of in an emergency but put it on tightly enough that an emergency is unlikely to arise.



                        If the issue is that your cat doesn't like the collar and claws at it or whatever, that's a temporary thing. After a few weeks, your cat will probably be fine with it. If the issue is that you're using a breakaway collar and the collar keeps breaking away, just accept that you'll need to buy a replacement collar every few months or so. You mention that a collar only lasts a few days but I suspect that was either a statistical aberration, the collar was improperly attached, or the breakaway device unlatched too easily. Maybe try a different brand.



                        A bell and collar is effective and not that big of an expense -- certainly small compared to building a massive fence around your yard or moving elsewhere or other options apparently under consideration.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                        • Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                          – cr0
                          26 mins ago















                        1














                        Get a collar with a bell.



                        I'm going to say that the best and easiest way to solve this problem is to get a collar and put a small bell on it. The bell will provide enough warning that the vast majority of birds will have enough warning to escape.



                        Yes, you say that you have difficulty keeping a collar on your cat. I admit I don't quite understand this -- it's not like cats can remove their own collars. Maybe you aren't putting the collar on tight enough? Don't strangle your cat, but make it tight enough that it doesn't slip over the head easily or at all. I like using a breakaway collar that the cat can get out of in an emergency but put it on tightly enough that an emergency is unlikely to arise.



                        If the issue is that your cat doesn't like the collar and claws at it or whatever, that's a temporary thing. After a few weeks, your cat will probably be fine with it. If the issue is that you're using a breakaway collar and the collar keeps breaking away, just accept that you'll need to buy a replacement collar every few months or so. You mention that a collar only lasts a few days but I suspect that was either a statistical aberration, the collar was improperly attached, or the breakaway device unlatched too easily. Maybe try a different brand.



                        A bell and collar is effective and not that big of an expense -- certainly small compared to building a massive fence around your yard or moving elsewhere or other options apparently under consideration.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                        • Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                          – cr0
                          26 mins ago













                        1












                        1








                        1







                        Get a collar with a bell.



                        I'm going to say that the best and easiest way to solve this problem is to get a collar and put a small bell on it. The bell will provide enough warning that the vast majority of birds will have enough warning to escape.



                        Yes, you say that you have difficulty keeping a collar on your cat. I admit I don't quite understand this -- it's not like cats can remove their own collars. Maybe you aren't putting the collar on tight enough? Don't strangle your cat, but make it tight enough that it doesn't slip over the head easily or at all. I like using a breakaway collar that the cat can get out of in an emergency but put it on tightly enough that an emergency is unlikely to arise.



                        If the issue is that your cat doesn't like the collar and claws at it or whatever, that's a temporary thing. After a few weeks, your cat will probably be fine with it. If the issue is that you're using a breakaway collar and the collar keeps breaking away, just accept that you'll need to buy a replacement collar every few months or so. You mention that a collar only lasts a few days but I suspect that was either a statistical aberration, the collar was improperly attached, or the breakaway device unlatched too easily. Maybe try a different brand.



                        A bell and collar is effective and not that big of an expense -- certainly small compared to building a massive fence around your yard or moving elsewhere or other options apparently under consideration.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.










                        Get a collar with a bell.



                        I'm going to say that the best and easiest way to solve this problem is to get a collar and put a small bell on it. The bell will provide enough warning that the vast majority of birds will have enough warning to escape.



                        Yes, you say that you have difficulty keeping a collar on your cat. I admit I don't quite understand this -- it's not like cats can remove their own collars. Maybe you aren't putting the collar on tight enough? Don't strangle your cat, but make it tight enough that it doesn't slip over the head easily or at all. I like using a breakaway collar that the cat can get out of in an emergency but put it on tightly enough that an emergency is unlikely to arise.



                        If the issue is that your cat doesn't like the collar and claws at it or whatever, that's a temporary thing. After a few weeks, your cat will probably be fine with it. If the issue is that you're using a breakaway collar and the collar keeps breaking away, just accept that you'll need to buy a replacement collar every few months or so. You mention that a collar only lasts a few days but I suspect that was either a statistical aberration, the collar was improperly attached, or the breakaway device unlatched too easily. Maybe try a different brand.



                        A bell and collar is effective and not that big of an expense -- certainly small compared to building a massive fence around your yard or moving elsewhere or other options apparently under consideration.







                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer






                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.









                        answered 48 mins ago









                        GalendoGalendo

                        1111




                        1111




                        New contributor




                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.





                        New contributor





                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                        Galendo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.












                        • Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                          – cr0
                          26 mins ago

















                        • Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                          – cr0
                          26 mins ago
















                        Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                        – cr0
                        26 mins ago





                        Speaking about this with vets it seems not that unusual for a cat to be able to break free from these things. We don't know how it happens, but I know that we've put different style collars on the cat and after a trip or two outside he comes back without it on. Same with two different types of harnesses, which really baffles me. I can understand slipping a collar off or breaking it somehow, but a harness?! Anyway, it is worth trying more, but I don't think this alone will reliably resolve the issue.

                        – cr0
                        26 mins ago











                        1














                        I would encourage you to keep trying things, even if they don't seem to work or have not worked in the past.



                        As others have suggested, try various things to make indoors more appealing, so he has less of an urge to venture outdoors.



                        Play with him. A lot. No, even more than that. Give him an outlet for all that energy.



                        If he's really food motivated, it should be possible to train him to accept a collar eventually - just keep at it! And once you do, the right collar can really help out Team Bird. That article cites a small study where a brightly colored collar appeared to reduce Team Cat's kill count by 54% - the article/study are from 2015, but the current website for a company that sells such collars makes (an unsourced) claim of 87%.






                        share|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                          1














                          I would encourage you to keep trying things, even if they don't seem to work or have not worked in the past.



                          As others have suggested, try various things to make indoors more appealing, so he has less of an urge to venture outdoors.



                          Play with him. A lot. No, even more than that. Give him an outlet for all that energy.



                          If he's really food motivated, it should be possible to train him to accept a collar eventually - just keep at it! And once you do, the right collar can really help out Team Bird. That article cites a small study where a brightly colored collar appeared to reduce Team Cat's kill count by 54% - the article/study are from 2015, but the current website for a company that sells such collars makes (an unsourced) claim of 87%.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                            1












                            1








                            1







                            I would encourage you to keep trying things, even if they don't seem to work or have not worked in the past.



                            As others have suggested, try various things to make indoors more appealing, so he has less of an urge to venture outdoors.



                            Play with him. A lot. No, even more than that. Give him an outlet for all that energy.



                            If he's really food motivated, it should be possible to train him to accept a collar eventually - just keep at it! And once you do, the right collar can really help out Team Bird. That article cites a small study where a brightly colored collar appeared to reduce Team Cat's kill count by 54% - the article/study are from 2015, but the current website for a company that sells such collars makes (an unsourced) claim of 87%.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.










                            I would encourage you to keep trying things, even if they don't seem to work or have not worked in the past.



                            As others have suggested, try various things to make indoors more appealing, so he has less of an urge to venture outdoors.



                            Play with him. A lot. No, even more than that. Give him an outlet for all that energy.



                            If he's really food motivated, it should be possible to train him to accept a collar eventually - just keep at it! And once you do, the right collar can really help out Team Bird. That article cites a small study where a brightly colored collar appeared to reduce Team Cat's kill count by 54% - the article/study are from 2015, but the current website for a company that sells such collars makes (an unsourced) claim of 87%.







                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            ap55 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.









                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer






                            New contributor




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                            answered 35 mins ago









                            ap55ap55

                            111




                            111




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                                ValueError: Expected n_neighbors <= n_samples, but n_samples = 1, n_neighbors = 6 (SMOTE) The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InCan SMOTE be applied over sequence of words (sentences)?ValueError when doing validation with random forestsSMOTE and multi class oversamplingLogic behind SMOTE-NC?ValueError: Error when checking target: expected dense_1 to have shape (7,) but got array with shape (1,)SmoteBoost: Should SMOTE be ran individually for each iteration/tree in the boosting?solving multi-class imbalance classification using smote and OSSUsing SMOTE for Synthetic Data generation to improve performance on unbalanced dataproblem of entry format for a simple model in KerasSVM SMOTE fit_resample() function runs forever with no result