Is DC-DC (24v to 12v) Buck Conversion typically more efficient than AC-DC (110v to 12v) conversion?Convert 320VDC to 220VAC or 48VDC voltage using 220VAC (UK) UPS?Can AC/DC conversion losses from solar panels be avoided with a Tesla Powerwall?Inverter Design - What DC input voltage for most efficient DC to 120VAC inverterNeed help choosing options for 12V supply from a Lithium-Ion batteryDC-to-DC conversion for solar, off the shelf or custom?DC Buck Converter for more than 3Ahow to design a microgridNeed a buck circuit to go from 48V down to 12V-9V less than 30mABuck Converter 24V 12AHow to deal with an inconsistent / noisy power signal?

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Is DC-DC (24v to 12v) Buck Conversion typically more efficient than AC-DC (110v to 12v) conversion?


Convert 320VDC to 220VAC or 48VDC voltage using 220VAC (UK) UPS?Can AC/DC conversion losses from solar panels be avoided with a Tesla Powerwall?Inverter Design - What DC input voltage for most efficient DC to 120VAC inverterNeed help choosing options for 12V supply from a Lithium-Ion batteryDC-to-DC conversion for solar, off the shelf or custom?DC Buck Converter for more than 3Ahow to design a microgridNeed a buck circuit to go from 48V down to 12V-9V less than 30mABuck Converter 24V 12AHow to deal with an inconsistent / noisy power signal?






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While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many ac inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that dc to dc conversion is more efficient than ac to dc conversion. I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient yet many product offering tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. Hoping to get some solid info on this specific efficiency comparison.










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    $begingroup$


    While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many ac inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that dc to dc conversion is more efficient than ac to dc conversion. I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient yet many product offering tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. Hoping to get some solid info on this specific efficiency comparison.










    share|improve this question







    New contributor




    Dobler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$














      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$


      While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many ac inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that dc to dc conversion is more efficient than ac to dc conversion. I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient yet many product offering tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. Hoping to get some solid info on this specific efficiency comparison.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Dobler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$




      While building an online UPS system, I'm basing the choice to eliminate as many ac inverters from the system as possible because of the assumption that dc to dc conversion is more efficient than ac to dc conversion. I'm not totally sure that this is the case though. I've read some articles stating that buck conversion might only be 85% efficient yet many product offering tout 97% efficiency. Also, one of the big selling points on AC is the efficiency of conversion. Hoping to get some solid info on this specific efficiency comparison.







      dc-dc-converter buck inverter ac-dc comparison






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      asked 8 hours ago









      DoblerDobler

      1162




      1162




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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          No general statements can be given.



          Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



          However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



          The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



          AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            2












            $begingroup$

            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



            enter image description here



            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$




















              0












              $begingroup$

              I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC to DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC. In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, they are pretty well developed now days.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                2












                $begingroup$

                No general statements can be given.



                Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$

















                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  No general statements can be given.



                  Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                  However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                  The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                  AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    No general statements can be given.



                    Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                    However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                    The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                    AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    No general statements can be given.



                    Generally, the larger the input/output voltage ratio is, the smaller the efficiency for basically all converter topologies.



                    However, whether you end up with 70%, 85% or 99% efficiency depends on the actual converter and the load.



                    The reason installation wiring uses higher voltages like 120V or 230V is that the energy losses during transportation will be lower if you need less current to deliver the same power – so, the very standard way of having 120V to racks of equipment and then individual converters where you need your power makes a lot of sense.



                    AC/DC converters are technically so close to DC/DC converters that the difference between those is shadowed by other technical considerations, such as how much you need to "overdimension" your power supply, how much money you want to invest in copper, and whether you're going for constrained size etc.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 8 hours ago









                    Marcus MüllerMarcus Müller

                    35.6k363103




                    35.6k363103























                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                        For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                        enter image description here



                        Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                        A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                        However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                        1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                        2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                        3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                        You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$

















                          2












                          $begingroup$

                          There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                          For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                          enter image description here



                          Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                          A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                          However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                          1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                          2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                          3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                          You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$

                            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                            enter image description here



                            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            There will be almost no difference in the conversion efficiency of an AC-DC versus a DC-DC convertor.

                            For example if you used a PC power supply to convert 120/240 to 12VDC (I'll simply ignore the other voltages produced), most modern SMPS supplies are at least 85% efficient:



                            enter image description here



                            Here you can clearly see that the efficiency at some reasonable load range is much better than 85%, and up to 90% for some portion of the load managed.



                            A DC-DC convertor specifically designed for 24-12VDC conversion could be expected to achieve similar efficiencies at reasonable loads.



                            However, there are other differences that may impact your decision.



                            1. A task designed 24-12V convertor may run at a much higher frequency than a PC power supply and be more space efficient for the same power output.

                            2. For any given 12VDC load current the 24-12V convertor will have more input current flowing than the PC power supply. This may significantly impact the I^2R losses on the primary side.

                            3. The device cost (FETs voltage rating, isolation components, inductors) will be significantly higher in the PC supply.

                            You need to decide where your cost vs performance decisions are made.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 7 hours ago

























                            answered 7 hours ago









                            Jack CreaseyJack Creasey

                            15.6k2823




                            15.6k2823





















                                0












                                $begingroup$

                                I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC to DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC. In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, they are pretty well developed now days.






                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                $endgroup$

















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC to DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC. In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, they are pretty well developed now days.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                  $endgroup$















                                    0












                                    0








                                    0





                                    $begingroup$

                                    I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC to DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC. In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, they are pretty well developed now days.






                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                    $endgroup$



                                    I would suggest, based on my own experience, the DC to DC route is better for low power situations like just a few watts. If you need kilowatts, you'd better go AC to DC. In between the efficiency is unlikely to be regulated by this particular choice as pointed out by Marcus. I have used buck convertors with 90% or greater efficiency, they are pretty well developed now days.







                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer






                                    New contributor




                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                    answered 5 hours ago









                                    PJ NoxonPJ Noxon

                                    83




                                    83




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                                    PJ Noxon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                        Dobler is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









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                                        Беларусь Змест Назва Гісторыя Геаграфія Сімволіка Дзяржаўны лад Палітычныя партыі Міжнароднае становішча і знешняя палітыка Адміністрацыйны падзел Насельніцтва Эканоміка Культура і грамадства Сацыяльная сфера Узброеныя сілы Заўвагі Літаратура Спасылкі НавігацыяHGЯOiТоп-2011 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2013 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2016 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2017 г. (па версіі ej.by)Нацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьШчыльнасць насельніцтва па краінахhttp://naviny.by/rubrics/society/2011/09/16/ic_articles_116_175144/А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Спробы засялення краю неандэртальскім чалавекам.І ў Менску былі мамантыА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіГ. Штыхаў. Балты і славяне ў VI—VIII стст.М. Клімаў. Полацкае княства ў IX—XI стст.Г. Штыхаў, В. Ляўко. Палітычная гісторыя Полацкай зямліГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахБеларускія землі ў складзе Вялікага Княства ЛітоўскагаЛюблінская унія 1569 г."The Early Stages of Independence"Zapomniane prawdy25 гадоў таму было аб'яўлена, што Язэп Пілсудскі — беларус (фота)Наша вадаДакументы ЧАЭС: Забруджванне тэрыторыі Беларусі « ЧАЭС Зона адчужэнняСведения о политических партиях, зарегистрированных в Республике Беларусь // Министерство юстиции Республики БеларусьСтатыстычны бюлетэнь „Полаўзроставая структура насельніцтва Рэспублікі Беларусь на 1 студзеня 2012 года і сярэднегадовая колькасць насельніцтва за 2011 год“Индекс человеческого развития Беларуси — не было бы нижеБеларусь занимает первое место в СНГ по индексу развития с учетом гендерного факцёраНацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьКанстытуцыя РБ. Артыкул 17Трансфармацыйныя задачы БеларусіВыйсце з крызісу — далейшае рэфармаванне Беларускі рубель — сусветны лідар па дэвальвацыяхПра змену коштаў у кастрычніку 2011 г.Бядней за беларусаў у СНД толькі таджыкіСярэдні заробак у верасні дасягнуў 2,26 мільёна рублёўЭканомікаГаласуем за ТОП-100 беларускай прозыСучасныя беларускія мастакіАрхитектура Беларуси BELARUS.BYА. Каханоўскі. Культура Беларусі ўсярэдзіне XVII—XVIII ст.Анталогія беларускай народнай песні, гуказапісы спеваўБеларускія Музычныя IнструментыБеларускі рок, які мы страцілі. Топ-10 гуртоў«Мясцовы час» — нязгаслая легенда беларускай рок-музыкіСЯРГЕЙ БУДКІН. МЫ НЯ ЗНАЕМ СВАЁЙ МУЗЫКІМ. А. Каладзінскі. НАРОДНЫ ТЭАТРМагнацкія культурныя цэнтрыПублічная дыскусія «Беларуская новая пьеса: без беларускай мовы ці беларуская?»Беларускія драматургі па-ранейшаму лепш ставяцца за мяжой, чым на радзіме«Працэс незалежнага кіно пайшоў, і дзяржаву турбуе яго непадкантрольнасць»Беларускія філосафы ў пошуках прасторыВсе идём в библиотекуАрхіваванаАб Нацыянальнай праграме даследавання і выкарыстання касмічнай прасторы ў мірных мэтах на 2008—2012 гадыУ космас — разам.У суседнім з Барысаўскім раёне пабудуюць Камандна-вымяральны пунктСвяты і абрады беларусаў«Мірныя бульбашы з малой краіны» — 5 непраўдзівых стэрэатыпаў пра БеларусьМ. Раманюк. Беларускае народнае адзеннеУ Беларусі скарачаецца колькасць злачынстваўЛукашэнка незадаволены мінскімі ўладамі Крадзяжы складаюць у Мінску каля 70% злачынстваў Узровень злачыннасці ў Мінскай вобласці — адзін з самых высокіх у краіне Генпракуратура аналізуе стан са злачыннасцю ў Беларусі па каэфіцыенце злачыннасці У Беларусі стабілізавалася крымінагеннае становішча, лічыць генпракурорЗамежнікі сталі здзяйсняць у Беларусі больш злачынстваўМУС Беларусі турбуе рост рэцыдыўнай злачыннасціЯ з ЖЭСа. Дазволіце вас абкрасці! Рэйтынг усіх службаў і падраздзяленняў ГУУС Мінгарвыканкама вырасАб КДБ РБГісторыя Аператыўна-аналітычнага цэнтра РБГісторыя ДКФРТаможняagentura.ruБеларусьBelarus.by — Афіцыйны сайт Рэспублікі БеларусьСайт урада БеларусіRadzima.org — Збор архітэктурных помнікаў, гісторыя Беларусі«Глобус Беларуси»Гербы и флаги БеларусиАсаблівасці каменнага веку на БеларусіА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіУ. Ксяндзоў. Сярэдні каменны век (мезаліт). Засяленне краю плямёнамі паляўнічых, рыбакоў і збіральнікаўА. Калечыц, М. Чарняўскі. Плямёны на тэрыторыі Беларусі ў новым каменным веку (неаліце)А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў, М. Чарняўскі. Гаспадарчыя заняткі ў каменным векуЭ. Зайкоўскі. Духоўная культура ў каменным векуАсаблівасці бронзавага веку на БеларусіФарміраванне супольнасцей ранняга перыяду бронзавага векуФотографии БеларусиРоля беларускіх зямель ва ўтварэнні і ўмацаванні ВКЛВ. Фадзеева. З гісторыі развіцця беларускай народнай вышыўкіDMOZGran catalanaБольшая российскаяBritannica (анлайн)Швейцарскі гістарычны15325917611952699xDA123282154079143-90000 0001 2171 2080n9112870100577502ge128882171858027501086026362074122714179пппппп

                                        ValueError: Expected n_neighbors <= n_samples, but n_samples = 1, n_neighbors = 6 (SMOTE) The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InCan SMOTE be applied over sequence of words (sentences)?ValueError when doing validation with random forestsSMOTE and multi class oversamplingLogic behind SMOTE-NC?ValueError: Error when checking target: expected dense_1 to have shape (7,) but got array with shape (1,)SmoteBoost: Should SMOTE be ran individually for each iteration/tree in the boosting?solving multi-class imbalance classification using smote and OSSUsing SMOTE for Synthetic Data generation to improve performance on unbalanced dataproblem of entry format for a simple model in KerasSVM SMOTE fit_resample() function runs forever with no result