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How do I use proper grammar in the negation of “have not” for the following sentence translation?
What does “I Can't Get No Satisfaction” mean?How do you tell when you're reading a poor translation?The word 'not' often doesn't mean total negation in mathematical sense?What is the best Bible translation by which I can speak proper English if I read it enough times?Words where “not [word]” means more than a lack ofDoes have “well drunk” mean “to be drunk”?“Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise…”What is a good English verb that means “to eliminate a term from a text being translated in order to achieve a natural translation"?Good synonyms for the words 'smarthead' and 'smartass', for use in a translationWhat are the naunces of the placement of 'be' in the following two sentences?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
I'm translating a DIALOUGE sentence from Japanese to English, and I'm having issues with keeping the negation of the verb "have not" in my translation while following proper English grammar, or avoiding the sentence reading awkwardly in English.
Below is the original Japanese sentence and underneath that are the individual segments parsed out with their English equivalent. (Particles are Japanese 'articles', and can mean different things based on the surrounding words or phrases).
貴女とて想いは同じではありませんか？
貴女 - feminine - 'you'
とて - particle - 'even'/'even though'/'on the grounds that'
想い - noun - 'thought'/'experience'/'hope'/'expectation'
は - topic particle (denotes topic of sentence)
同じ noun - 'same'/'similar' / etc.
では - conjunction - 'then'/'well'/'so'/'well then'
ありません - sentence ending verb - 'to have'/'to exist'/'to come about' negative polite form
か - Japanese question mark
The following are the English translations I've made after converting the literal translation to proper American English.
Even though you have not had similar thoughts then?
Even though you have not had similar thoughts as well?
Even you have not thought the same as well?
Even you have not similar thoughts as well?
A only-English-speaking friend I've run the above translations by suggested
"Even you must have had similar thoughts?" which fits the situation, but leaves out the 'not'.
Based on the information above, which sentence works while leaving in the 'not', or what would you suggest as a alternate translation that works in English that contains the negation?
translation negation double-negation
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
add a comment |
I'm translating a DIALOUGE sentence from Japanese to English, and I'm having issues with keeping the negation of the verb "have not" in my translation while following proper English grammar, or avoiding the sentence reading awkwardly in English.
Below is the original Japanese sentence and underneath that are the individual segments parsed out with their English equivalent. (Particles are Japanese 'articles', and can mean different things based on the surrounding words or phrases).
貴女とて想いは同じではありませんか？
貴女 - feminine - 'you'
とて - particle - 'even'/'even though'/'on the grounds that'
想い - noun - 'thought'/'experience'/'hope'/'expectation'
は - topic particle (denotes topic of sentence)
同じ noun - 'same'/'similar' / etc.
では - conjunction - 'then'/'well'/'so'/'well then'
ありません - sentence ending verb - 'to have'/'to exist'/'to come about' negative polite form
か - Japanese question mark
The following are the English translations I've made after converting the literal translation to proper American English.
Even though you have not had similar thoughts then?
Even though you have not had similar thoughts as well?
Even you have not thought the same as well?
Even you have not similar thoughts as well?
A only-English-speaking friend I've run the above translations by suggested
"Even you must have had similar thoughts?" which fits the situation, but leaves out the 'not'.
Based on the information above, which sentence works while leaving in the 'not', or what would you suggest as a alternate translation that works in English that contains the negation?
translation negation double-negation
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm translating a DIALOUGE sentence from Japanese to English, and I'm having issues with keeping the negation of the verb "have not" in my translation while following proper English grammar, or avoiding the sentence reading awkwardly in English.
Below is the original Japanese sentence and underneath that are the individual segments parsed out with their English equivalent. (Particles are Japanese 'articles', and can mean different things based on the surrounding words or phrases).
貴女とて想いは同じではありませんか？
貴女 - feminine - 'you'
とて - particle - 'even'/'even though'/'on the grounds that'
想い - noun - 'thought'/'experience'/'hope'/'expectation'
は - topic particle (denotes topic of sentence)
同じ noun - 'same'/'similar' / etc.
では - conjunction - 'then'/'well'/'so'/'well then'
ありません - sentence ending verb - 'to have'/'to exist'/'to come about' negative polite form
か - Japanese question mark
The following are the English translations I've made after converting the literal translation to proper American English.
Even though you have not had similar thoughts then?
Even though you have not had similar thoughts as well?
Even you have not thought the same as well?
Even you have not similar thoughts as well?
A only-English-speaking friend I've run the above translations by suggested
"Even you must have had similar thoughts?" which fits the situation, but leaves out the 'not'.
Based on the information above, which sentence works while leaving in the 'not', or what would you suggest as a alternate translation that works in English that contains the negation?
translation negation double-negation
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
I'm translating a DIALOUGE sentence from Japanese to English, and I'm having issues with keeping the negation of the verb "have not" in my translation while following proper English grammar, or avoiding the sentence reading awkwardly in English.
Below is the original Japanese sentence and underneath that are the individual segments parsed out with their English equivalent. (Particles are Japanese 'articles', and can mean different things based on the surrounding words or phrases).
貴女とて想いは同じではありませんか？
貴女 - feminine - 'you'
とて - particle - 'even'/'even though'/'on the grounds that'
想い - noun - 'thought'/'experience'/'hope'/'expectation'
は - topic particle (denotes topic of sentence)
同じ noun - 'same'/'similar' / etc.
では - conjunction - 'then'/'well'/'so'/'well then'
ありません - sentence ending verb - 'to have'/'to exist'/'to come about' negative polite form
か - Japanese question mark
The following are the English translations I've made after converting the literal translation to proper American English.
Even though you have not had similar thoughts then?
Even though you have not had similar thoughts as well?
Even you have not thought the same as well?
Even you have not similar thoughts as well?
A only-English-speaking friend I've run the above translations by suggested
"Even you must have had similar thoughts?" which fits the situation, but leaves out the 'not'.
Based on the information above, which sentence works while leaving in the 'not', or what would you suggest as a alternate translation that works in English that contains the negation?
translation negation double-negation
translation negation double-negation
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
asked 4 hours ago
Toyu_FreyToyu_Frey
1185
1185
Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago
Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago
Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
I think you're focusing too much on word-to-word translations. A Japanese-English dictionary cannot tell you what is appropriate in actual translation. All of the suggested "translations" you included in your question are either ungrammatical or so confusing as to be incomprehensible. That's the result of hewing to closely to "literal" equivalency: you get a "translation" that doesn't mean anything close to the original.
A negative question isn't the only way to convey the same meaning as ありませんか. In this sentence, that serves to mark the sentence as a tag question. There are other structures in English that express the same meaning. Same with the とて. "Even" isn't the only way to convey the kind of emphasis that とて expresses.
I'd suggest either
You must've had similar thoughts yourself.
or
Have you not had similar thoughts yourself?
if you're really dead-set on keeping a negative question.
In the future, I'd recommend trying to understand the meaning and purpose of the Japanese sentence as a whole before trying to convey that meaning in English. Breaking the sentence into its components and replacing those components one-by-one is not going to lead to an accurate translation.
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I think you're focusing too much on word-to-word translations. A Japanese-English dictionary cannot tell you what is appropriate in actual translation. All of the suggested "translations" you included in your question are either ungrammatical or so confusing as to be incomprehensible. That's the result of hewing to closely to "literal" equivalency: you get a "translation" that doesn't mean anything close to the original.
A negative question isn't the only way to convey the same meaning as ありませんか. In this sentence, that serves to mark the sentence as a tag question. There are other structures in English that express the same meaning. Same with the とて. "Even" isn't the only way to convey the kind of emphasis that とて expresses.
I'd suggest either
You must've had similar thoughts yourself.
or
Have you not had similar thoughts yourself?
if you're really dead-set on keeping a negative question.
In the future, I'd recommend trying to understand the meaning and purpose of the Japanese sentence as a whole before trying to convey that meaning in English. Breaking the sentence into its components and replacing those components one-by-one is not going to lead to an accurate translation.
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think you're focusing too much on word-to-word translations. A Japanese-English dictionary cannot tell you what is appropriate in actual translation. All of the suggested "translations" you included in your question are either ungrammatical or so confusing as to be incomprehensible. That's the result of hewing to closely to "literal" equivalency: you get a "translation" that doesn't mean anything close to the original.
A negative question isn't the only way to convey the same meaning as ありませんか. In this sentence, that serves to mark the sentence as a tag question. There are other structures in English that express the same meaning. Same with the とて. "Even" isn't the only way to convey the kind of emphasis that とて expresses.
I'd suggest either
You must've had similar thoughts yourself.
or
Have you not had similar thoughts yourself?
if you're really dead-set on keeping a negative question.
In the future, I'd recommend trying to understand the meaning and purpose of the Japanese sentence as a whole before trying to convey that meaning in English. Breaking the sentence into its components and replacing those components one-by-one is not going to lead to an accurate translation.
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I think you're focusing too much on word-to-word translations. A Japanese-English dictionary cannot tell you what is appropriate in actual translation. All of the suggested "translations" you included in your question are either ungrammatical or so confusing as to be incomprehensible. That's the result of hewing to closely to "literal" equivalency: you get a "translation" that doesn't mean anything close to the original.
A negative question isn't the only way to convey the same meaning as ありませんか. In this sentence, that serves to mark the sentence as a tag question. There are other structures in English that express the same meaning. Same with the とて. "Even" isn't the only way to convey the kind of emphasis that とて expresses.
I'd suggest either
You must've had similar thoughts yourself.
or
Have you not had similar thoughts yourself?
if you're really dead-set on keeping a negative question.
In the future, I'd recommend trying to understand the meaning and purpose of the Japanese sentence as a whole before trying to convey that meaning in English. Breaking the sentence into its components and replacing those components one-by-one is not going to lead to an accurate translation.
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
I think you're focusing too much on word-to-word translations. A Japanese-English dictionary cannot tell you what is appropriate in actual translation. All of the suggested "translations" you included in your question are either ungrammatical or so confusing as to be incomprehensible. That's the result of hewing to closely to "literal" equivalency: you get a "translation" that doesn't mean anything close to the original.
A negative question isn't the only way to convey the same meaning as ありませんか. In this sentence, that serves to mark the sentence as a tag question. There are other structures in English that express the same meaning. Same with the とて. "Even" isn't the only way to convey the kind of emphasis that とて expresses.
I'd suggest either
You must've had similar thoughts yourself.
or
Have you not had similar thoughts yourself?
if you're really dead-set on keeping a negative question.
In the future, I'd recommend trying to understand the meaning and purpose of the Japanese sentence as a whole before trying to convey that meaning in English. Breaking the sentence into its components and replacing those components one-by-one is not going to lead to an accurate translation.
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
answered 3 hours ago
skysky
1305
1305
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
Where did you glean the "yourself" from?
– Toyu_Frey
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
"Yourself" serves the same purpose as とて. When とて directly follows a noun, it has a very similar meaning to だって or も. "You've thought the same yourself" uses "yourself" to put emphasis on "you".
– sky
3 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
I think I understand what you're saying about とて, that it's a emphasis particle/verb ending? Would "Surely you have thought the same, haven't you?" work as a translation, now that I know that the sentence is a tag question (I didn't recognize it as one)? I'm just trying to double check my newly gained knowledge of tag sentences.
– Toyu_Frey
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
Yes, I think that would work too.
– sky
2 hours ago
1
1
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
Now that I think about it, I don't know if "tag question" is the right term. It's a broader category that includes other kinds of rhetorical questions. For example, "Haven't you done that already?" is not a tag question question. But it isn't neutrally seeking information either, it assumes the answer. I don't know the term for it, but in Japanese, as in English, oftentimes negative questions are seeking confirmation, or aren't true questions at all.
– sky
2 hours ago
add a comment |
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Have even you yourself not thought so?
– Xanne
3 hours ago