Pronouncing Dictionary.com's W.O.D “vade mecum” in EnglishTraditional vs. classical pronunciation of Latin words in EnglishPronouncing acronymsPronouncing “A”: “ai” vs. “ah”Pronouncing “vis-à-vis”?Pronouncing th after r in Standard American English: /ɹð/Exercises for pronouncing the rPronouncing MethanePronouncing the word “getting”Pronouncing 'Going' in UK EnglishPronouncing 4.5 metersRecent change in pronouncing homage

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Pronouncing Dictionary.com's W.O.D “vade mecum” in English


Traditional vs. classical pronunciation of Latin words in EnglishPronouncing acronymsPronouncing “A”: “ai” vs. “ah”Pronouncing “vis-à-vis”?Pronouncing th after r in Standard American English: /ɹð/Exercises for pronouncing the rPronouncing MethanePronouncing the word “getting”Pronouncing 'Going' in UK EnglishPronouncing 4.5 metersRecent change in pronouncing homage






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








4















The Word of the Day for April 7th, 2019 on Dictionary.com is vade mecum, coming from the Latin expression vāde mēcum meaning something like "come along with me." Dictionary.com lists the pronunciation options as,




[vey-dee mee-kuh m, vah-]




It's been some time since I've studied Latin, but a couple of discrepancies are obvious to me here. In Latin, this would be pronounced




wah deɪ meɪ cum/[wah-day may kum]




There's no "v" sound in Latin. That changes to "w". This change is understandable though. Nobody pronounces veni, vidi, vici with the "w" sound. However, the long A and E sounds they're using in the first syllables of both words are also absent in Latin, and, in thinking of some other Latin loan words--caveat, sine qua non, dramatis personae, carpe diem--I don't think I've encountered those vowel sounds before. So, considering that Dictionary.com is somewhat authoritative in providing pronunciation guidance, what are they basing their pronunciation on; and, further, how faithful should one be in pronouncing Latin words in English?










share|improve this question
























  • In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

    – Lambie
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

    – Michael Harvey
    3 hours ago












  • @MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

    – tylerharms
    2 hours ago











  • We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

    – Michael Harvey
    1 hour ago

















4















The Word of the Day for April 7th, 2019 on Dictionary.com is vade mecum, coming from the Latin expression vāde mēcum meaning something like "come along with me." Dictionary.com lists the pronunciation options as,




[vey-dee mee-kuh m, vah-]




It's been some time since I've studied Latin, but a couple of discrepancies are obvious to me here. In Latin, this would be pronounced




wah deɪ meɪ cum/[wah-day may kum]




There's no "v" sound in Latin. That changes to "w". This change is understandable though. Nobody pronounces veni, vidi, vici with the "w" sound. However, the long A and E sounds they're using in the first syllables of both words are also absent in Latin, and, in thinking of some other Latin loan words--caveat, sine qua non, dramatis personae, carpe diem--I don't think I've encountered those vowel sounds before. So, considering that Dictionary.com is somewhat authoritative in providing pronunciation guidance, what are they basing their pronunciation on; and, further, how faithful should one be in pronouncing Latin words in English?










share|improve this question
























  • In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

    – Lambie
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

    – Michael Harvey
    3 hours ago












  • @MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

    – tylerharms
    2 hours ago











  • We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

    – Michael Harvey
    1 hour ago













4












4








4








The Word of the Day for April 7th, 2019 on Dictionary.com is vade mecum, coming from the Latin expression vāde mēcum meaning something like "come along with me." Dictionary.com lists the pronunciation options as,




[vey-dee mee-kuh m, vah-]




It's been some time since I've studied Latin, but a couple of discrepancies are obvious to me here. In Latin, this would be pronounced




wah deɪ meɪ cum/[wah-day may kum]




There's no "v" sound in Latin. That changes to "w". This change is understandable though. Nobody pronounces veni, vidi, vici with the "w" sound. However, the long A and E sounds they're using in the first syllables of both words are also absent in Latin, and, in thinking of some other Latin loan words--caveat, sine qua non, dramatis personae, carpe diem--I don't think I've encountered those vowel sounds before. So, considering that Dictionary.com is somewhat authoritative in providing pronunciation guidance, what are they basing their pronunciation on; and, further, how faithful should one be in pronouncing Latin words in English?










share|improve this question
















The Word of the Day for April 7th, 2019 on Dictionary.com is vade mecum, coming from the Latin expression vāde mēcum meaning something like "come along with me." Dictionary.com lists the pronunciation options as,




[vey-dee mee-kuh m, vah-]




It's been some time since I've studied Latin, but a couple of discrepancies are obvious to me here. In Latin, this would be pronounced




wah deɪ meɪ cum/[wah-day may kum]




There's no "v" sound in Latin. That changes to "w". This change is understandable though. Nobody pronounces veni, vidi, vici with the "w" sound. However, the long A and E sounds they're using in the first syllables of both words are also absent in Latin, and, in thinking of some other Latin loan words--caveat, sine qua non, dramatis personae, carpe diem--I don't think I've encountered those vowel sounds before. So, considering that Dictionary.com is somewhat authoritative in providing pronunciation guidance, what are they basing their pronunciation on; and, further, how faithful should one be in pronouncing Latin words in English?







pronunciation latin






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 5 hours ago







tylerharms

















asked 7 hours ago









tylerharmstylerharms

6,91053063




6,91053063












  • In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

    – Lambie
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

    – Michael Harvey
    3 hours ago












  • @MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

    – tylerharms
    2 hours ago











  • We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

    – Michael Harvey
    1 hour ago

















  • In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

    – Lambie
    7 hours ago






  • 1





    I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

    – Michael Harvey
    3 hours ago












  • @MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

    – tylerharms
    2 hours ago











  • We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

    – Michael Harvey
    1 hour ago
















In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

– Lambie
7 hours ago





In Latin, with a capital l, like all words for languages in English.

– Lambie
7 hours ago




1




1





I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

– Michael Harvey
3 hours ago






I was taught Latin, in an English school in the 1960s, using (I believe) the Restored Classical scheme introduced by the Board of Education in 1907. Caesar (Kye-zar) said "Wainy, weedy, weeky". I would have said "vade mecum" as wah-day maycoom", the 'u' syllable of 'mecum' pronounced as if by someone from Yorkshire.

– Michael Harvey
3 hours ago














@MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

– tylerharms
2 hours ago





@MichaelHarvey I used the Oxford English Course when I was studying Latin in the late 90's in college. They used the "classical" scheme, making no reference to any other pronunciation guide.

– tylerharms
2 hours ago













We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

– Michael Harvey
1 hour ago





We weren't told, at age 11, about any 'schemes', it was just "this is the way you must pronounce Latin". It was only later, e.g. when I heard priests in movies speaking Latin as if it was modern Italian, that I realised there were other ways.

– Michael Harvey
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















6














On the Classical vs Traditional pronunciation of Latin words in English



For your term’s pronunciation, its (paywalled) OED entry for vade-mecum lists first the /ˈvɑːdeɪ ˈmeɪkəm/ version with the FATHER vowel for the first stressed syllable and the FACE vowel for the second. Then following that one it has /ˈveɪdi ˈmiːkəm/ pronunciation now showing the FACE vowel in the first word and the FLEECE vowel in the second.



Notice how what had originally been a Latin imperative verb phrase is now uses as a noun in English and the other tongues that use the term, just like we nouned ignoramus from a Latin verb to an English noun.




Etymology: Latin, vāde imperative singular of vādĕre to go + mēcum with me. So French vademecum, Spanish vademecum, Portuguese vademecum (Portuguese also vademeco).




These two very different pronunciations respectively represent the so-called “classical” versus “traditional” pronunciation of Latin words in English, as mentioned in this answer and laboriously detailed in this very long Wikipedia article.



The essential difference is that the first one is far closer to the “classical” pronunciation of Latin. That is, it’s pronounced “as it’s spelled” using the original values of the Latin letters as they’re still used in the vast majority of non-English languages and indeed how they’re used in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It’s how someone who speaks Italian or Spanish or French or Portuguese or Romanian or German or Swedish would expect to pronounce it.



The only phonetic accommodations made are those required by the phonotactics of English pronunciation: Latin /e/ getting the customary non-phonemic off-glide we sometimes write as [eɪ] or [ej], and the characteristic reduction in unstressed syllables centralizing that /u/ to a schwa /ə/. V was just another way of writing U, just as J was just another way of writing I, but in a consonantal use that letter was probably realized as [β̞], as voiced bilabial approximant or fricative that English doesn’t have but which can be still be found in Spanish for intervocalic ‹v› (and ‹b›). That's necessarily been altered to a sound that English does actually have, the /v/ you see there.



The second “traditional” pronunciation would be the one you would expect a native speaker English with no knowledge of how any other language used the Latin letters for vowels. When Old English started spelling things using the Latin alphabet, they quite reasonably used the Latin letters corresponding to those sounds. But then when time mutated nearly all of those, the spelling never changed to match the pronunciation shifts.



That's because the Great Vowel Shift, which changed how English pronounces nearly all words, came about after we started writing words down using the Latin alphabet. So we ended up using the "wrong" values for almost all of these letters from the perspective of the rest of the world. Under the shift, ‹a› becomes /e/, ‹e› becomes /i/, ‹i› becomes the phonemic diphthong /ɑɪ/, and ‹o› often becomes /ɔ/ or even /ɒ/ or /ɑ/. (There are also a few consonant changes, like ‹c› no longer always representing /k/ but sometimes /s/ instead.)



I’ve never personally heard anyone use anything except the classical pronunciation of vade mecum, the way you might expect of an Italian speaker or a Spanish speaker, the one that the OED lists first. This might well be because I’ve also never heard it uttered by someone without any background in a Romance or other continental language, let alone in Latin proper.



It’s probably a markedly “learnèd” term these days, one you would only see in a more scholarly context. The OED places it is its frequency band three, along with such terms as ebullition and prelapsarian, contumacious and argentiferous. So even though you wouldn’t expect to find it in newspapers (apart from The Economist :) neither is it a term that should puzzle educated readers.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

    – tylerharms
    5 hours ago











  • I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

    – Andrew Leach
    1 hour ago


















0














English speakers used to have a conventional way of pronouncing Latin, which was baffling to Latin speakers from continental Europe. It survives in expressions like vice versa and via (as in 'by way of'), and in some scientific and legal terminology. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A0860C6625BE5A0E45FD58A18797E6FB/S175027051200005Xa.pdf/the-english-pronunciation-of-latin-its-rise-and-fall.pdf



However, my Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1992 revision, tells you to pronounce vade mecum with the 'ah' sound.






share|improve this answer























  • That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

    – Lambie
    6 hours ago











  • This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

    – tylerharms
    6 hours ago











Your Answer








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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









6














On the Classical vs Traditional pronunciation of Latin words in English



For your term’s pronunciation, its (paywalled) OED entry for vade-mecum lists first the /ˈvɑːdeɪ ˈmeɪkəm/ version with the FATHER vowel for the first stressed syllable and the FACE vowel for the second. Then following that one it has /ˈveɪdi ˈmiːkəm/ pronunciation now showing the FACE vowel in the first word and the FLEECE vowel in the second.



Notice how what had originally been a Latin imperative verb phrase is now uses as a noun in English and the other tongues that use the term, just like we nouned ignoramus from a Latin verb to an English noun.




Etymology: Latin, vāde imperative singular of vādĕre to go + mēcum with me. So French vademecum, Spanish vademecum, Portuguese vademecum (Portuguese also vademeco).




These two very different pronunciations respectively represent the so-called “classical” versus “traditional” pronunciation of Latin words in English, as mentioned in this answer and laboriously detailed in this very long Wikipedia article.



The essential difference is that the first one is far closer to the “classical” pronunciation of Latin. That is, it’s pronounced “as it’s spelled” using the original values of the Latin letters as they’re still used in the vast majority of non-English languages and indeed how they’re used in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It’s how someone who speaks Italian or Spanish or French or Portuguese or Romanian or German or Swedish would expect to pronounce it.



The only phonetic accommodations made are those required by the phonotactics of English pronunciation: Latin /e/ getting the customary non-phonemic off-glide we sometimes write as [eɪ] or [ej], and the characteristic reduction in unstressed syllables centralizing that /u/ to a schwa /ə/. V was just another way of writing U, just as J was just another way of writing I, but in a consonantal use that letter was probably realized as [β̞], as voiced bilabial approximant or fricative that English doesn’t have but which can be still be found in Spanish for intervocalic ‹v› (and ‹b›). That's necessarily been altered to a sound that English does actually have, the /v/ you see there.



The second “traditional” pronunciation would be the one you would expect a native speaker English with no knowledge of how any other language used the Latin letters for vowels. When Old English started spelling things using the Latin alphabet, they quite reasonably used the Latin letters corresponding to those sounds. But then when time mutated nearly all of those, the spelling never changed to match the pronunciation shifts.



That's because the Great Vowel Shift, which changed how English pronounces nearly all words, came about after we started writing words down using the Latin alphabet. So we ended up using the "wrong" values for almost all of these letters from the perspective of the rest of the world. Under the shift, ‹a› becomes /e/, ‹e› becomes /i/, ‹i› becomes the phonemic diphthong /ɑɪ/, and ‹o› often becomes /ɔ/ or even /ɒ/ or /ɑ/. (There are also a few consonant changes, like ‹c› no longer always representing /k/ but sometimes /s/ instead.)



I’ve never personally heard anyone use anything except the classical pronunciation of vade mecum, the way you might expect of an Italian speaker or a Spanish speaker, the one that the OED lists first. This might well be because I’ve also never heard it uttered by someone without any background in a Romance or other continental language, let alone in Latin proper.



It’s probably a markedly “learnèd” term these days, one you would only see in a more scholarly context. The OED places it is its frequency band three, along with such terms as ebullition and prelapsarian, contumacious and argentiferous. So even though you wouldn’t expect to find it in newspapers (apart from The Economist :) neither is it a term that should puzzle educated readers.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

    – tylerharms
    5 hours ago











  • I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

    – Andrew Leach
    1 hour ago















6














On the Classical vs Traditional pronunciation of Latin words in English



For your term’s pronunciation, its (paywalled) OED entry for vade-mecum lists first the /ˈvɑːdeɪ ˈmeɪkəm/ version with the FATHER vowel for the first stressed syllable and the FACE vowel for the second. Then following that one it has /ˈveɪdi ˈmiːkəm/ pronunciation now showing the FACE vowel in the first word and the FLEECE vowel in the second.



Notice how what had originally been a Latin imperative verb phrase is now uses as a noun in English and the other tongues that use the term, just like we nouned ignoramus from a Latin verb to an English noun.




Etymology: Latin, vāde imperative singular of vādĕre to go + mēcum with me. So French vademecum, Spanish vademecum, Portuguese vademecum (Portuguese also vademeco).




These two very different pronunciations respectively represent the so-called “classical” versus “traditional” pronunciation of Latin words in English, as mentioned in this answer and laboriously detailed in this very long Wikipedia article.



The essential difference is that the first one is far closer to the “classical” pronunciation of Latin. That is, it’s pronounced “as it’s spelled” using the original values of the Latin letters as they’re still used in the vast majority of non-English languages and indeed how they’re used in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It’s how someone who speaks Italian or Spanish or French or Portuguese or Romanian or German or Swedish would expect to pronounce it.



The only phonetic accommodations made are those required by the phonotactics of English pronunciation: Latin /e/ getting the customary non-phonemic off-glide we sometimes write as [eɪ] or [ej], and the characteristic reduction in unstressed syllables centralizing that /u/ to a schwa /ə/. V was just another way of writing U, just as J was just another way of writing I, but in a consonantal use that letter was probably realized as [β̞], as voiced bilabial approximant or fricative that English doesn’t have but which can be still be found in Spanish for intervocalic ‹v› (and ‹b›). That's necessarily been altered to a sound that English does actually have, the /v/ you see there.



The second “traditional” pronunciation would be the one you would expect a native speaker English with no knowledge of how any other language used the Latin letters for vowels. When Old English started spelling things using the Latin alphabet, they quite reasonably used the Latin letters corresponding to those sounds. But then when time mutated nearly all of those, the spelling never changed to match the pronunciation shifts.



That's because the Great Vowel Shift, which changed how English pronounces nearly all words, came about after we started writing words down using the Latin alphabet. So we ended up using the "wrong" values for almost all of these letters from the perspective of the rest of the world. Under the shift, ‹a› becomes /e/, ‹e› becomes /i/, ‹i› becomes the phonemic diphthong /ɑɪ/, and ‹o› often becomes /ɔ/ or even /ɒ/ or /ɑ/. (There are also a few consonant changes, like ‹c› no longer always representing /k/ but sometimes /s/ instead.)



I’ve never personally heard anyone use anything except the classical pronunciation of vade mecum, the way you might expect of an Italian speaker or a Spanish speaker, the one that the OED lists first. This might well be because I’ve also never heard it uttered by someone without any background in a Romance or other continental language, let alone in Latin proper.



It’s probably a markedly “learnèd” term these days, one you would only see in a more scholarly context. The OED places it is its frequency band three, along with such terms as ebullition and prelapsarian, contumacious and argentiferous. So even though you wouldn’t expect to find it in newspapers (apart from The Economist :) neither is it a term that should puzzle educated readers.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1





    The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

    – tylerharms
    5 hours ago











  • I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

    – Andrew Leach
    1 hour ago













6












6








6







On the Classical vs Traditional pronunciation of Latin words in English



For your term’s pronunciation, its (paywalled) OED entry for vade-mecum lists first the /ˈvɑːdeɪ ˈmeɪkəm/ version with the FATHER vowel for the first stressed syllable and the FACE vowel for the second. Then following that one it has /ˈveɪdi ˈmiːkəm/ pronunciation now showing the FACE vowel in the first word and the FLEECE vowel in the second.



Notice how what had originally been a Latin imperative verb phrase is now uses as a noun in English and the other tongues that use the term, just like we nouned ignoramus from a Latin verb to an English noun.




Etymology: Latin, vāde imperative singular of vādĕre to go + mēcum with me. So French vademecum, Spanish vademecum, Portuguese vademecum (Portuguese also vademeco).




These two very different pronunciations respectively represent the so-called “classical” versus “traditional” pronunciation of Latin words in English, as mentioned in this answer and laboriously detailed in this very long Wikipedia article.



The essential difference is that the first one is far closer to the “classical” pronunciation of Latin. That is, it’s pronounced “as it’s spelled” using the original values of the Latin letters as they’re still used in the vast majority of non-English languages and indeed how they’re used in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It’s how someone who speaks Italian or Spanish or French or Portuguese or Romanian or German or Swedish would expect to pronounce it.



The only phonetic accommodations made are those required by the phonotactics of English pronunciation: Latin /e/ getting the customary non-phonemic off-glide we sometimes write as [eɪ] or [ej], and the characteristic reduction in unstressed syllables centralizing that /u/ to a schwa /ə/. V was just another way of writing U, just as J was just another way of writing I, but in a consonantal use that letter was probably realized as [β̞], as voiced bilabial approximant or fricative that English doesn’t have but which can be still be found in Spanish for intervocalic ‹v› (and ‹b›). That's necessarily been altered to a sound that English does actually have, the /v/ you see there.



The second “traditional” pronunciation would be the one you would expect a native speaker English with no knowledge of how any other language used the Latin letters for vowels. When Old English started spelling things using the Latin alphabet, they quite reasonably used the Latin letters corresponding to those sounds. But then when time mutated nearly all of those, the spelling never changed to match the pronunciation shifts.



That's because the Great Vowel Shift, which changed how English pronounces nearly all words, came about after we started writing words down using the Latin alphabet. So we ended up using the "wrong" values for almost all of these letters from the perspective of the rest of the world. Under the shift, ‹a› becomes /e/, ‹e› becomes /i/, ‹i› becomes the phonemic diphthong /ɑɪ/, and ‹o› often becomes /ɔ/ or even /ɒ/ or /ɑ/. (There are also a few consonant changes, like ‹c› no longer always representing /k/ but sometimes /s/ instead.)



I’ve never personally heard anyone use anything except the classical pronunciation of vade mecum, the way you might expect of an Italian speaker or a Spanish speaker, the one that the OED lists first. This might well be because I’ve also never heard it uttered by someone without any background in a Romance or other continental language, let alone in Latin proper.



It’s probably a markedly “learnèd” term these days, one you would only see in a more scholarly context. The OED places it is its frequency band three, along with such terms as ebullition and prelapsarian, contumacious and argentiferous. So even though you wouldn’t expect to find it in newspapers (apart from The Economist :) neither is it a term that should puzzle educated readers.






share|improve this answer













On the Classical vs Traditional pronunciation of Latin words in English



For your term’s pronunciation, its (paywalled) OED entry for vade-mecum lists first the /ˈvɑːdeɪ ˈmeɪkəm/ version with the FATHER vowel for the first stressed syllable and the FACE vowel for the second. Then following that one it has /ˈveɪdi ˈmiːkəm/ pronunciation now showing the FACE vowel in the first word and the FLEECE vowel in the second.



Notice how what had originally been a Latin imperative verb phrase is now uses as a noun in English and the other tongues that use the term, just like we nouned ignoramus from a Latin verb to an English noun.




Etymology: Latin, vāde imperative singular of vādĕre to go + mēcum with me. So French vademecum, Spanish vademecum, Portuguese vademecum (Portuguese also vademeco).




These two very different pronunciations respectively represent the so-called “classical” versus “traditional” pronunciation of Latin words in English, as mentioned in this answer and laboriously detailed in this very long Wikipedia article.



The essential difference is that the first one is far closer to the “classical” pronunciation of Latin. That is, it’s pronounced “as it’s spelled” using the original values of the Latin letters as they’re still used in the vast majority of non-English languages and indeed how they’re used in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It’s how someone who speaks Italian or Spanish or French or Portuguese or Romanian or German or Swedish would expect to pronounce it.



The only phonetic accommodations made are those required by the phonotactics of English pronunciation: Latin /e/ getting the customary non-phonemic off-glide we sometimes write as [eɪ] or [ej], and the characteristic reduction in unstressed syllables centralizing that /u/ to a schwa /ə/. V was just another way of writing U, just as J was just another way of writing I, but in a consonantal use that letter was probably realized as [β̞], as voiced bilabial approximant or fricative that English doesn’t have but which can be still be found in Spanish for intervocalic ‹v› (and ‹b›). That's necessarily been altered to a sound that English does actually have, the /v/ you see there.



The second “traditional” pronunciation would be the one you would expect a native speaker English with no knowledge of how any other language used the Latin letters for vowels. When Old English started spelling things using the Latin alphabet, they quite reasonably used the Latin letters corresponding to those sounds. But then when time mutated nearly all of those, the spelling never changed to match the pronunciation shifts.



That's because the Great Vowel Shift, which changed how English pronounces nearly all words, came about after we started writing words down using the Latin alphabet. So we ended up using the "wrong" values for almost all of these letters from the perspective of the rest of the world. Under the shift, ‹a› becomes /e/, ‹e› becomes /i/, ‹i› becomes the phonemic diphthong /ɑɪ/, and ‹o› often becomes /ɔ/ or even /ɒ/ or /ɑ/. (There are also a few consonant changes, like ‹c› no longer always representing /k/ but sometimes /s/ instead.)



I’ve never personally heard anyone use anything except the classical pronunciation of vade mecum, the way you might expect of an Italian speaker or a Spanish speaker, the one that the OED lists first. This might well be because I’ve also never heard it uttered by someone without any background in a Romance or other continental language, let alone in Latin proper.



It’s probably a markedly “learnèd” term these days, one you would only see in a more scholarly context. The OED places it is its frequency band three, along with such terms as ebullition and prelapsarian, contumacious and argentiferous. So even though you wouldn’t expect to find it in newspapers (apart from The Economist :) neither is it a term that should puzzle educated readers.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 6 hours ago









tchristtchrist

110k30295476




110k30295476







  • 1





    The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

    – tylerharms
    5 hours ago











  • I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

    – Andrew Leach
    1 hour ago












  • 1





    The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

    – tylerharms
    5 hours ago











  • I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

    – Andrew Leach
    1 hour ago







1




1





The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

– tylerharms
5 hours ago





The distinction between those who study languages and have an understanding of the classical (pronounced "as it's spelled") version and those who know no other language but English and intuit their English phonetics on Latin words makes sense to me. So, it seems like Dictionary.com is pandering to those people.

– tylerharms
5 hours ago













I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

– Andrew Leach
1 hour ago





I've only heard it pronounced /ˌvædɪ ˈmɪːkəm/, and I learned Classical Latin at school. But it's no longer Latin; used in English it's an English expression (however rare).

– Andrew Leach
1 hour ago













0














English speakers used to have a conventional way of pronouncing Latin, which was baffling to Latin speakers from continental Europe. It survives in expressions like vice versa and via (as in 'by way of'), and in some scientific and legal terminology. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A0860C6625BE5A0E45FD58A18797E6FB/S175027051200005Xa.pdf/the-english-pronunciation-of-latin-its-rise-and-fall.pdf



However, my Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1992 revision, tells you to pronounce vade mecum with the 'ah' sound.






share|improve this answer























  • That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

    – Lambie
    6 hours ago











  • This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

    – tylerharms
    6 hours ago















0














English speakers used to have a conventional way of pronouncing Latin, which was baffling to Latin speakers from continental Europe. It survives in expressions like vice versa and via (as in 'by way of'), and in some scientific and legal terminology. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A0860C6625BE5A0E45FD58A18797E6FB/S175027051200005Xa.pdf/the-english-pronunciation-of-latin-its-rise-and-fall.pdf



However, my Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1992 revision, tells you to pronounce vade mecum with the 'ah' sound.






share|improve this answer























  • That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

    – Lambie
    6 hours ago











  • This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

    – tylerharms
    6 hours ago













0












0








0







English speakers used to have a conventional way of pronouncing Latin, which was baffling to Latin speakers from continental Europe. It survives in expressions like vice versa and via (as in 'by way of'), and in some scientific and legal terminology. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A0860C6625BE5A0E45FD58A18797E6FB/S175027051200005Xa.pdf/the-english-pronunciation-of-latin-its-rise-and-fall.pdf



However, my Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1992 revision, tells you to pronounce vade mecum with the 'ah' sound.






share|improve this answer













English speakers used to have a conventional way of pronouncing Latin, which was baffling to Latin speakers from continental Europe. It survives in expressions like vice versa and via (as in 'by way of'), and in some scientific and legal terminology. See https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/A0860C6625BE5A0E45FD58A18797E6FB/S175027051200005Xa.pdf/the-english-pronunciation-of-latin-its-rise-and-fall.pdf



However, my Pocket Oxford Dictionary, 1992 revision, tells you to pronounce vade mecum with the 'ah' sound.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 6 hours ago









Kate BuntingKate Bunting

6,58631518




6,58631518












  • That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

    – Lambie
    6 hours ago











  • This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

    – tylerharms
    6 hours ago

















  • That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

    – Lambie
    6 hours ago











  • This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

    – tylerharms
    6 hours ago
















That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

– Lambie
6 hours ago





That paper is really something but does not mention the consonant v at all....which is sort of odd given what it is about.

– Lambie
6 hours ago













This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

– tylerharms
6 hours ago





This source is interesting. Any chance you can distill some of the essential elements down into your answer to explain what principles of pronunciation the "restored" system acknowledges.

– tylerharms
6 hours ago

















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Францішак Багушэвіч Змест Сям'я | Біяграфія | Творчасць | Мова Багушэвіча | Ацэнкі дзейнасці | Цікавыя факты | Спадчына | Выбраная бібліяграфія | Ушанаванне памяці | У філатэліі | Зноскі | Літаратура | Спасылкі | НавігацыяЛяхоўскі У. Рупіўся дзеля Бога і людзей: Жыццёвы шлях Лявона Вітан-Дубейкаўскага // Вольскі і Памідораў з песняй пра немца Адвакат, паэт, народны заступнік Ашмянскі веснікВ Минске появится площадь Богушевича и улица Сырокомли, Белорусская деловая газета, 19 июля 2001 г.Айцец беларускай нацыянальнай ідэі паўстаў у бронзе Сяргей Аляксандравіч Адашкевіч (1918, Мінск). 80-я гады. Бюст «Францішак Багушэвіч».Яўген Мікалаевіч Ціхановіч. «Партрэт Францішка Багушэвіча»Мікола Мікалаевіч Купава. «Партрэт зачынальніка новай беларускай літаратуры Францішка Багушэвіча»Уладзімір Іванавіч Мелехаў. На помніку «Змагарам за родную мову» Барэльеф «Францішак Багушэвіч»Памяць пра Багушэвіча на Віленшчыне Страчаная сталіца. Беларускія шыльды на вуліцах Вільні«Krynica». Ideologia i przywódcy białoruskiego katolicyzmuФранцішак БагушэвічТворы на knihi.comТворы Францішка Багушэвіча на bellib.byСодаль Уладзімір. Францішак Багушэвіч на Лідчыне;Луцкевіч Антон. Жыцьцё і творчасьць Фр. Багушэвіча ў успамінах ягоных сучасьнікаў // Запісы Беларускага Навуковага таварыства. Вільня, 1938. Сшытак 1. С. 16-34.Большая российская1188761710000 0000 5537 633Xn9209310021619551927869394п

На ростанях Змест Гісторыя напісання | Месца дзеяння | Час дзеяння | Назва | Праблематыка трылогіі | Аўтабіяграфічнасць | Трылогія ў тэатры і кіно | Пераклады | У культуры | Зноскі Літаратура | Спасылкі | НавігацыяДагледжаная версіяправерана1 зменаДагледжаная версіяправерана1 зменаАкадэмік МІЦКЕВІЧ Канстанцін Міхайлавіч (Якуб Колас) Прадмова М. І. Мушынскага, доктара філалагічных навук, члена-карэспандэнта Нацыянальнай акадэміі навук Рэспублікі Беларусь, прафесараНашаніўцы ў трылогіі Якуба Коласа «На ростанях»: вобразы і прататыпы125 лет Янке МавруКнижно-документальная выставка к 125-летию со дня рождения Якуба Коласа (1882—1956)Колас Якуб. Новая зямля (паэма), На ростанях (трылогія). Сулкоўскі Уладзімір. Радзіма Якуба Коласа (серыял жывапісных палотнаў)Вокладка кнігіІлюстрацыя М. С. БасалыгіНа ростаняхАўдыёверсія трылогііВ. Жолтак У Люсiнскай школе 1959

Беларусь Змест Назва Гісторыя Геаграфія Сімволіка Дзяржаўны лад Палітычныя партыі Міжнароднае становішча і знешняя палітыка Адміністрацыйны падзел Насельніцтва Эканоміка Культура і грамадства Сацыяльная сфера Узброеныя сілы Заўвагі Літаратура Спасылкі НавігацыяHGЯOiТоп-2011 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2013 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2016 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2017 г. (па версіі ej.by)Нацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьШчыльнасць насельніцтва па краінахhttp://naviny.by/rubrics/society/2011/09/16/ic_articles_116_175144/А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Спробы засялення краю неандэртальскім чалавекам.І ў Менску былі мамантыА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіГ. Штыхаў. Балты і славяне ў VI—VIII стст.М. Клімаў. Полацкае княства ў IX—XI стст.Г. Штыхаў, В. Ляўко. Палітычная гісторыя Полацкай зямліГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахБеларускія землі ў складзе Вялікага Княства ЛітоўскагаЛюблінская унія 1569 г."The Early Stages of Independence"Zapomniane prawdy25 гадоў таму было аб'яўлена, што Язэп Пілсудскі — беларус (фота)Наша вадаДакументы ЧАЭС: Забруджванне тэрыторыі Беларусі « ЧАЭС Зона адчужэнняСведения о политических партиях, зарегистрированных в Республике Беларусь // Министерство юстиции Республики БеларусьСтатыстычны бюлетэнь „Полаўзроставая структура насельніцтва Рэспублікі Беларусь на 1 студзеня 2012 года і сярэднегадовая колькасць насельніцтва за 2011 год“Индекс человеческого развития Беларуси — не было бы нижеБеларусь занимает первое место в СНГ по индексу развития с учетом гендерного факцёраНацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьКанстытуцыя РБ. Артыкул 17Трансфармацыйныя задачы БеларусіВыйсце з крызісу — далейшае рэфармаванне Беларускі рубель — сусветны лідар па дэвальвацыяхПра змену коштаў у кастрычніку 2011 г.Бядней за беларусаў у СНД толькі таджыкіСярэдні заробак у верасні дасягнуў 2,26 мільёна рублёўЭканомікаГаласуем за ТОП-100 беларускай прозыСучасныя беларускія мастакіАрхитектура Беларуси BELARUS.BYА. Каханоўскі. Культура Беларусі ўсярэдзіне XVII—XVIII ст.Анталогія беларускай народнай песні, гуказапісы спеваўБеларускія Музычныя IнструментыБеларускі рок, які мы страцілі. Топ-10 гуртоў«Мясцовы час» — нязгаслая легенда беларускай рок-музыкіСЯРГЕЙ БУДКІН. МЫ НЯ ЗНАЕМ СВАЁЙ МУЗЫКІМ. А. Каладзінскі. НАРОДНЫ ТЭАТРМагнацкія культурныя цэнтрыПублічная дыскусія «Беларуская новая пьеса: без беларускай мовы ці беларуская?»Беларускія драматургі па-ранейшаму лепш ставяцца за мяжой, чым на радзіме«Працэс незалежнага кіно пайшоў, і дзяржаву турбуе яго непадкантрольнасць»Беларускія філосафы ў пошуках прасторыВсе идём в библиотекуАрхіваванаАб Нацыянальнай праграме даследавання і выкарыстання касмічнай прасторы ў мірных мэтах на 2008—2012 гадыУ космас — разам.У суседнім з Барысаўскім раёне пабудуюць Камандна-вымяральны пунктСвяты і абрады беларусаў«Мірныя бульбашы з малой краіны» — 5 непраўдзівых стэрэатыпаў пра БеларусьМ. Раманюк. Беларускае народнае адзеннеУ Беларусі скарачаецца колькасць злачынстваўЛукашэнка незадаволены мінскімі ўладамі Крадзяжы складаюць у Мінску каля 70% злачынстваў Узровень злачыннасці ў Мінскай вобласці — адзін з самых высокіх у краіне Генпракуратура аналізуе стан са злачыннасцю ў Беларусі па каэфіцыенце злачыннасці У Беларусі стабілізавалася крымінагеннае становішча, лічыць генпракурорЗамежнікі сталі здзяйсняць у Беларусі больш злачынстваўМУС Беларусі турбуе рост рэцыдыўнай злачыннасціЯ з ЖЭСа. Дазволіце вас абкрасці! Рэйтынг усіх службаў і падраздзяленняў ГУУС Мінгарвыканкама вырасАб КДБ РБГісторыя Аператыўна-аналітычнага цэнтра РБГісторыя ДКФРТаможняagentura.ruБеларусьBelarus.by — Афіцыйны сайт Рэспублікі БеларусьСайт урада БеларусіRadzima.org — Збор архітэктурных помнікаў, гісторыя Беларусі«Глобус Беларуси»Гербы и флаги БеларусиАсаблівасці каменнага веку на БеларусіА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіУ. Ксяндзоў. Сярэдні каменны век (мезаліт). Засяленне краю плямёнамі паляўнічых, рыбакоў і збіральнікаўА. Калечыц, М. Чарняўскі. Плямёны на тэрыторыі Беларусі ў новым каменным веку (неаліце)А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў, М. Чарняўскі. Гаспадарчыя заняткі ў каменным векуЭ. Зайкоўскі. Духоўная культура ў каменным векуАсаблівасці бронзавага веку на БеларусіФарміраванне супольнасцей ранняга перыяду бронзавага векуФотографии БеларусиРоля беларускіх зямель ва ўтварэнні і ўмацаванні ВКЛВ. Фадзеева. З гісторыі развіцця беларускай народнай вышыўкіDMOZGran catalanaБольшая российскаяBritannica (анлайн)Швейцарскі гістарычны15325917611952699xDA123282154079143-90000 0001 2171 2080n9112870100577502ge128882171858027501086026362074122714179пппппп