Is the Mordenkainen's Sword spell underpowered? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Channel Spell (su) and Scorching RayBreath of life and a quickened cure spellIs “Mass Aid” spell level balanced, especially when compared to other “Mass” spells?The power level of the Sword of Sharpness doesn't justify its very rare rating - am I missing something?Rebalancing Ice Claw as a 7th level spellWhat does the DC in Orcus' voice lair action refer to in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes?Is the wings of flurry spell broken, when compared to other strong 4th level spells?Does the Fear spell work with an Oath of Conquest paladin's Aura of Conquest?Is this homebrew Spiritual Inquiry spell, an adjustment of Speak with Dead to be lower level, balanced as a 1st-level spell?Is this Supernatural warlock patron balanced?

How do I say "this must not happen"?

Short story about astronauts fertilizing soil with their own bodies

Meaning of 境 in その日を境に

How to achieve cat-like agility?

Why do C and C++ allow the expression (int) + 4*5;

How to infer difference of population proportion between two groups when proportion is small?

Do i imagine the linear (straight line) homotopy in a correct way?

Can two people see the same photon?

Is it OK to use the testing sample to compare algorithms?

First paper to introduce the "principal-agent problem"

Calculation of line of sight system gain

Russian equivalents of おしゃれは足元から (Every good outfit starts with the shoes)

The test team as an enemy of development? And how can this be avoided?

How does TikZ render an arc?

Did pre-Columbian Americans know the spherical shape of the Earth?

Is the time—manner—place ordering of adverbials an oversimplification?

How can I prevent/balance waiting and turtling as a response to cooldown mechanics

Diophantine equation 3^a+1=3^b+5^c

Why not use the yoke to control yaw, as well as pitch and roll?

Simple Line in LaTeX Help!

How do you write "wild blueberries flavored"?

What was the last profitable war?

Why is there so little support for joining EFTA in the British parliament?

How can I list files in reverse time order by a command and pass them as arguments to another command?



Is the Mordenkainen's Sword spell underpowered?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Channel Spell (su) and Scorching RayBreath of life and a quickened cure spellIs “Mass Aid” spell level balanced, especially when compared to other “Mass” spells?The power level of the Sword of Sharpness doesn't justify its very rare rating - am I missing something?Rebalancing Ice Claw as a 7th level spellWhat does the DC in Orcus' voice lair action refer to in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes?Is the wings of flurry spell broken, when compared to other strong 4th level spells?Does the Fear spell work with an Oath of Conquest paladin's Aura of Conquest?Is this homebrew Spiritual Inquiry spell, an adjustment of Speak with Dead to be lower level, balanced as a 1st-level spell?Is this Supernatural warlock patron balanced?



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








8












$begingroup$


The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.



Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$


















    8












    $begingroup$


    The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.



    Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$














      8












      8








      8


      1



      $begingroup$


      The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.



      Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$




      The Mordenkainen's Sword spell seems to be under-powered for a 7th-level spell. It only does 3d10 damage; while admittedly it can do this damage every round for 1 minute, it still just seems to not be that much damage for a spell of its level.



      Is it just me or is it not a very good spell, compared to other 7th-level spells?







      dnd-5e spells balance






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago









      Chris Starnes

      4,1261934




      4,1261934






      New contributor




      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 6 hours ago









      Q PaulQ Paul

      763




      763




      New contributor




      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Q Paul is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          7












          $begingroup$

          Mordenkainen's Sword:



          This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after that, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.



          This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.



          The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.



          It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.



          In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Q Paul
            5 hours ago






          • 6




            $begingroup$
            +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
            $endgroup$
            – Benjamin Olson
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
            $endgroup$
            – Play Patrice
            4 hours ago






          • 5




            $begingroup$
            Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
            $endgroup$
            – Dale M
            2 hours ago


















          9












          $begingroup$


          Mordenkainen's sword isn't underpowered - it's terrible



          It's bad for a concentration spell



          At any given level, the spell you chose for concentration should be one designed to "win" that encounter. When you first gain 7th-level spells at Wizard 13, you have tons of concentration spells to chose from.



          • First, Mordenkainen's sword for comparison. Deal 33 damage to one target on round one, then 16.5 "for free" on later rounds.


          • Reverse gravity is no-save-just-suck for a massive 50' radius. (An enemy that saves is stuck holding on. Melee enemies without flight are screwed.)

          • The 5th-level wall of force is no-save-just-wait for most Huge or smaller creatures. Unless they have misty step or similar, they wait while you kill their friends.

          • The 5th-level Bigby's hand deals 18 damage per round, also with a bonus action. It deals 36 damage per round upcast to 7th-level. It can also grapple, push, and provide cover.

          I think it's important to highlight how much better Bigby's hand is than Mordenkainen's sword. In my experience, most fights in 5e last around 3 rounds. For this calculation, I will assume all attacks hit.




          • Bigby's hand at 5th-level damage over 3 rounds: 54 damage.


          • Mordenkainen's sword at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 66 damage.


          • Bigby's hand at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 108 damage (!).

          It's bad for a non-concentration spell



          In the earlier list, I only ran through concentration spells. What about non-concentration spells?




          • Crown of stars from Xanathar's deals 78 damage over 3 rounds - more than the sword and it doesn't require concentration. It also lasts for 1 hour, so you can precast it.


          • Forcecage is the evolution of wall of force. No-save-just-wait for most creatures. It even makes teleporting out difficult.

          • The 6th-level mass suggestion is save-or-take-the-day-off for 12 creatures not immune to charm.

          • The 5th-level steel wind strike from Xanathar's deals 33 damage to 6 creatures in one round.

          Conclusion



          Mordenkainen's sword isn't just underpowered, it's brokenly bad. In nearly all situations, I would rather spend concentration on a 3rd-level hypnotic pattern than Mordenkainen's sword. The sword would be underpowered as a 5th-level spell, much less 7th.



          Want to win most encounters? Pick a control spell. Want to deal a bunch of damage? Pick Bigby's hand or steel wind strike. Whatever you do, don't pick Mordenkainen's sword.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function()
            var channelOptions =
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "122"
            ;
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
            createEditor();
            );

            else
            createEditor();

            );

            function createEditor()
            StackExchange.prepareEditor(
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader:
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            ,
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            );



            );






            Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145586%2fis-the-mordenkainens-sword-spell-underpowered%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            7












            $begingroup$

            Mordenkainen's Sword:



            This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after that, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.



            This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.



            The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.



            It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.



            In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Q Paul
              5 hours ago






            • 6




              $begingroup$
              +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
              $endgroup$
              – Benjamin Olson
              4 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
              $endgroup$
              – Play Patrice
              4 hours ago






            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
              $endgroup$
              – Dale M
              2 hours ago















            7












            $begingroup$

            Mordenkainen's Sword:



            This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after that, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.



            This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.



            The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.



            It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.



            In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Q Paul
              5 hours ago






            • 6




              $begingroup$
              +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
              $endgroup$
              – Benjamin Olson
              4 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
              $endgroup$
              – Play Patrice
              4 hours ago






            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
              $endgroup$
              – Dale M
              2 hours ago













            7












            7








            7





            $begingroup$

            Mordenkainen's Sword:



            This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after that, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.



            This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.



            The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.



            It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.



            In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Mordenkainen's Sword:



            This spell can do up to 3d10 x2 damage on the first round. First you use your action to summon it, and it procs, then you can use your bonus action to move it 20 ft and attack. Then each round after that, it can make an additional attack. Maximum damage for a single casting is 33d10 (10 rounds, plus the summoning proc). It requires concentration, so consider it "Bonus" damage at the expense of your Bonus Action. Meaning you can still take your ACTION to cast other spells.



            This gives you a potential Average damage of 181.5 damage over the course of the spell with a maximum of 330 damage, for a single spell slot. Making it exceedingly efficient, but very slow. If you have a basic damage cantrip, you can easily get another 1d10 damage each round (effectively giving you 4d10 potential damage starting round 2). If you have access to eldritch blast (Bard), this gives you a consistent potential 6d10 of FORCE damage every round for 10 rounds. Giving an average of 330 damage (Max 600) for the cost of 7th level slot, a concentration slot, your bonus action and using your action on a cantrip every round.



            The high damage output plus the fact that it's force damage makes it a threat IF you party needs heavy damage output and can tank for you. Getting hit and loosing concentration can severely mitigate it's effectiveness. The tradeoff comes from the idea that very few things have Force resistance. The damage for a single level 7 spell slot is above average compared to similar spells of that level. Another drawback is that the spell takes 10 rounds to complete and you can't cast another concentration requiring spell. Utilizing other spells or abilities that require a bonus action will also hamper damage output. Though you can still cast other instantaneous spells (like fireball) with your regular action.



            It's heavy Damage over time. The downside is that without your concentration slot you could loose out on another Buff for your other party members or DeBuff against an enemy target. And of course, each damage requires an attack roll.



            In conclusion - If you need additional damage pressure against a creature with heavy resistances, this is VERY cost effective for the damage dealt. But the length of time it takes to reach max damage potential at the cost of concentration / bonus action seriously hampers your options and utility for the party while in combat.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 3 hours ago

























            answered 5 hours ago









            Play PatricePlay Patrice

            2,558426




            2,558426







            • 1




              $begingroup$
              This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Q Paul
              5 hours ago






            • 6




              $begingroup$
              +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
              $endgroup$
              – Benjamin Olson
              4 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
              $endgroup$
              – Play Patrice
              4 hours ago






            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
              $endgroup$
              – Dale M
              2 hours ago












            • 1




              $begingroup$
              This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Q Paul
              5 hours ago






            • 6




              $begingroup$
              +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
              $endgroup$
              – Benjamin Olson
              4 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
              $endgroup$
              – Play Patrice
              4 hours ago






            • 5




              $begingroup$
              Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
              $endgroup$
              – Dale M
              2 hours ago







            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Q Paul
            5 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            This is exactly what I needed, and thanks for the tip about the eldritch blast combo, I was actually considering this spell because I have a bard so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Q Paul
            5 hours ago




            6




            6




            $begingroup$
            +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
            $endgroup$
            – Benjamin Olson
            4 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            +1, but I think in your discussion of action economy it might be worth mentioning that for Wizards there are relatively few other options to use a bonus action other than redirecting a spell like this, which lowers the effective "cost" for that class.
            $endgroup$
            – Benjamin Olson
            4 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
            $endgroup$
            – Play Patrice
            4 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Though that's true, It's not necessarily only wizards that grab this spell. Bards have a handful of spells and abilities that utilize their bonus actions to good effect. It's also not uncommon for HIGH level campaigns to have multi class level dips that give access to Bonus Action abilities.
            $endgroup$
            – Play Patrice
            4 hours ago




            5




            5




            $begingroup$
            Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
            $endgroup$
            – Dale M
            2 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Someone who can cast a 7th level spell can do 3d10 damage with a cantrip, not 1d10
            $endgroup$
            – Dale M
            2 hours ago













            9












            $begingroup$


            Mordenkainen's sword isn't underpowered - it's terrible



            It's bad for a concentration spell



            At any given level, the spell you chose for concentration should be one designed to "win" that encounter. When you first gain 7th-level spells at Wizard 13, you have tons of concentration spells to chose from.



            • First, Mordenkainen's sword for comparison. Deal 33 damage to one target on round one, then 16.5 "for free" on later rounds.


            • Reverse gravity is no-save-just-suck for a massive 50' radius. (An enemy that saves is stuck holding on. Melee enemies without flight are screwed.)

            • The 5th-level wall of force is no-save-just-wait for most Huge or smaller creatures. Unless they have misty step or similar, they wait while you kill their friends.

            • The 5th-level Bigby's hand deals 18 damage per round, also with a bonus action. It deals 36 damage per round upcast to 7th-level. It can also grapple, push, and provide cover.

            I think it's important to highlight how much better Bigby's hand is than Mordenkainen's sword. In my experience, most fights in 5e last around 3 rounds. For this calculation, I will assume all attacks hit.




            • Bigby's hand at 5th-level damage over 3 rounds: 54 damage.


            • Mordenkainen's sword at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 66 damage.


            • Bigby's hand at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 108 damage (!).

            It's bad for a non-concentration spell



            In the earlier list, I only ran through concentration spells. What about non-concentration spells?




            • Crown of stars from Xanathar's deals 78 damage over 3 rounds - more than the sword and it doesn't require concentration. It also lasts for 1 hour, so you can precast it.


            • Forcecage is the evolution of wall of force. No-save-just-wait for most creatures. It even makes teleporting out difficult.

            • The 6th-level mass suggestion is save-or-take-the-day-off for 12 creatures not immune to charm.

            • The 5th-level steel wind strike from Xanathar's deals 33 damage to 6 creatures in one round.

            Conclusion



            Mordenkainen's sword isn't just underpowered, it's brokenly bad. In nearly all situations, I would rather spend concentration on a 3rd-level hypnotic pattern than Mordenkainen's sword. The sword would be underpowered as a 5th-level spell, much less 7th.



            Want to win most encounters? Pick a control spell. Want to deal a bunch of damage? Pick Bigby's hand or steel wind strike. Whatever you do, don't pick Mordenkainen's sword.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$

















              9












              $begingroup$


              Mordenkainen's sword isn't underpowered - it's terrible



              It's bad for a concentration spell



              At any given level, the spell you chose for concentration should be one designed to "win" that encounter. When you first gain 7th-level spells at Wizard 13, you have tons of concentration spells to chose from.



              • First, Mordenkainen's sword for comparison. Deal 33 damage to one target on round one, then 16.5 "for free" on later rounds.


              • Reverse gravity is no-save-just-suck for a massive 50' radius. (An enemy that saves is stuck holding on. Melee enemies without flight are screwed.)

              • The 5th-level wall of force is no-save-just-wait for most Huge or smaller creatures. Unless they have misty step or similar, they wait while you kill their friends.

              • The 5th-level Bigby's hand deals 18 damage per round, also with a bonus action. It deals 36 damage per round upcast to 7th-level. It can also grapple, push, and provide cover.

              I think it's important to highlight how much better Bigby's hand is than Mordenkainen's sword. In my experience, most fights in 5e last around 3 rounds. For this calculation, I will assume all attacks hit.




              • Bigby's hand at 5th-level damage over 3 rounds: 54 damage.


              • Mordenkainen's sword at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 66 damage.


              • Bigby's hand at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 108 damage (!).

              It's bad for a non-concentration spell



              In the earlier list, I only ran through concentration spells. What about non-concentration spells?




              • Crown of stars from Xanathar's deals 78 damage over 3 rounds - more than the sword and it doesn't require concentration. It also lasts for 1 hour, so you can precast it.


              • Forcecage is the evolution of wall of force. No-save-just-wait for most creatures. It even makes teleporting out difficult.

              • The 6th-level mass suggestion is save-or-take-the-day-off for 12 creatures not immune to charm.

              • The 5th-level steel wind strike from Xanathar's deals 33 damage to 6 creatures in one round.

              Conclusion



              Mordenkainen's sword isn't just underpowered, it's brokenly bad. In nearly all situations, I would rather spend concentration on a 3rd-level hypnotic pattern than Mordenkainen's sword. The sword would be underpowered as a 5th-level spell, much less 7th.



              Want to win most encounters? Pick a control spell. Want to deal a bunch of damage? Pick Bigby's hand or steel wind strike. Whatever you do, don't pick Mordenkainen's sword.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$















                9












                9








                9





                $begingroup$


                Mordenkainen's sword isn't underpowered - it's terrible



                It's bad for a concentration spell



                At any given level, the spell you chose for concentration should be one designed to "win" that encounter. When you first gain 7th-level spells at Wizard 13, you have tons of concentration spells to chose from.



                • First, Mordenkainen's sword for comparison. Deal 33 damage to one target on round one, then 16.5 "for free" on later rounds.


                • Reverse gravity is no-save-just-suck for a massive 50' radius. (An enemy that saves is stuck holding on. Melee enemies without flight are screwed.)

                • The 5th-level wall of force is no-save-just-wait for most Huge or smaller creatures. Unless they have misty step or similar, they wait while you kill their friends.

                • The 5th-level Bigby's hand deals 18 damage per round, also with a bonus action. It deals 36 damage per round upcast to 7th-level. It can also grapple, push, and provide cover.

                I think it's important to highlight how much better Bigby's hand is than Mordenkainen's sword. In my experience, most fights in 5e last around 3 rounds. For this calculation, I will assume all attacks hit.




                • Bigby's hand at 5th-level damage over 3 rounds: 54 damage.


                • Mordenkainen's sword at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 66 damage.


                • Bigby's hand at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 108 damage (!).

                It's bad for a non-concentration spell



                In the earlier list, I only ran through concentration spells. What about non-concentration spells?




                • Crown of stars from Xanathar's deals 78 damage over 3 rounds - more than the sword and it doesn't require concentration. It also lasts for 1 hour, so you can precast it.


                • Forcecage is the evolution of wall of force. No-save-just-wait for most creatures. It even makes teleporting out difficult.

                • The 6th-level mass suggestion is save-or-take-the-day-off for 12 creatures not immune to charm.

                • The 5th-level steel wind strike from Xanathar's deals 33 damage to 6 creatures in one round.

                Conclusion



                Mordenkainen's sword isn't just underpowered, it's brokenly bad. In nearly all situations, I would rather spend concentration on a 3rd-level hypnotic pattern than Mordenkainen's sword. The sword would be underpowered as a 5th-level spell, much less 7th.



                Want to win most encounters? Pick a control spell. Want to deal a bunch of damage? Pick Bigby's hand or steel wind strike. Whatever you do, don't pick Mordenkainen's sword.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$




                Mordenkainen's sword isn't underpowered - it's terrible



                It's bad for a concentration spell



                At any given level, the spell you chose for concentration should be one designed to "win" that encounter. When you first gain 7th-level spells at Wizard 13, you have tons of concentration spells to chose from.



                • First, Mordenkainen's sword for comparison. Deal 33 damage to one target on round one, then 16.5 "for free" on later rounds.


                • Reverse gravity is no-save-just-suck for a massive 50' radius. (An enemy that saves is stuck holding on. Melee enemies without flight are screwed.)

                • The 5th-level wall of force is no-save-just-wait for most Huge or smaller creatures. Unless they have misty step or similar, they wait while you kill their friends.

                • The 5th-level Bigby's hand deals 18 damage per round, also with a bonus action. It deals 36 damage per round upcast to 7th-level. It can also grapple, push, and provide cover.

                I think it's important to highlight how much better Bigby's hand is than Mordenkainen's sword. In my experience, most fights in 5e last around 3 rounds. For this calculation, I will assume all attacks hit.




                • Bigby's hand at 5th-level damage over 3 rounds: 54 damage.


                • Mordenkainen's sword at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 66 damage.


                • Bigby's hand at 7th-level over 3 rounds: 108 damage (!).

                It's bad for a non-concentration spell



                In the earlier list, I only ran through concentration spells. What about non-concentration spells?




                • Crown of stars from Xanathar's deals 78 damage over 3 rounds - more than the sword and it doesn't require concentration. It also lasts for 1 hour, so you can precast it.


                • Forcecage is the evolution of wall of force. No-save-just-wait for most creatures. It even makes teleporting out difficult.

                • The 6th-level mass suggestion is save-or-take-the-day-off for 12 creatures not immune to charm.

                • The 5th-level steel wind strike from Xanathar's deals 33 damage to 6 creatures in one round.

                Conclusion



                Mordenkainen's sword isn't just underpowered, it's brokenly bad. In nearly all situations, I would rather spend concentration on a 3rd-level hypnotic pattern than Mordenkainen's sword. The sword would be underpowered as a 5th-level spell, much less 7th.



                Want to win most encounters? Pick a control spell. Want to deal a bunch of damage? Pick Bigby's hand or steel wind strike. Whatever you do, don't pick Mordenkainen's sword.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 2 hours ago









                Chris StarnesChris Starnes

                4,1261934




                4,1261934




















                    Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                    draft saved

                    draft discarded


















                    Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                    Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                    Q Paul is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid


                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function ()
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145586%2fis-the-mordenkainens-sword-spell-underpowered%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Францішак Багушэвіч Змест Сям'я | Біяграфія | Творчасць | Мова Багушэвіча | Ацэнкі дзейнасці | Цікавыя факты | Спадчына | Выбраная бібліяграфія | Ушанаванне памяці | У філатэліі | Зноскі | Літаратура | Спасылкі | НавігацыяЛяхоўскі У. Рупіўся дзеля Бога і людзей: Жыццёвы шлях Лявона Вітан-Дубейкаўскага // Вольскі і Памідораў з песняй пра немца Адвакат, паэт, народны заступнік Ашмянскі веснікВ Минске появится площадь Богушевича и улица Сырокомли, Белорусская деловая газета, 19 июля 2001 г.Айцец беларускай нацыянальнай ідэі паўстаў у бронзе Сяргей Аляксандравіч Адашкевіч (1918, Мінск). 80-я гады. Бюст «Францішак Багушэвіч».Яўген Мікалаевіч Ціхановіч. «Партрэт Францішка Багушэвіча»Мікола Мікалаевіч Купава. «Партрэт зачынальніка новай беларускай літаратуры Францішка Багушэвіча»Уладзімір Іванавіч Мелехаў. На помніку «Змагарам за родную мову» Барэльеф «Францішак Багушэвіч»Памяць пра Багушэвіча на Віленшчыне Страчаная сталіца. Беларускія шыльды на вуліцах Вільні«Krynica». Ideologia i przywódcy białoruskiego katolicyzmuФранцішак БагушэвічТворы на knihi.comТворы Францішка Багушэвіча на bellib.byСодаль Уладзімір. Францішак Багушэвіч на Лідчыне;Луцкевіч Антон. Жыцьцё і творчасьць Фр. Багушэвіча ў успамінах ягоных сучасьнікаў // Запісы Беларускага Навуковага таварыства. Вільня, 1938. Сшытак 1. С. 16-34.Большая российская1188761710000 0000 5537 633Xn9209310021619551927869394п

                    Беларусь Змест Назва Гісторыя Геаграфія Сімволіка Дзяржаўны лад Палітычныя партыі Міжнароднае становішча і знешняя палітыка Адміністрацыйны падзел Насельніцтва Эканоміка Культура і грамадства Сацыяльная сфера Узброеныя сілы Заўвагі Літаратура Спасылкі НавігацыяHGЯOiТоп-2011 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2013 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2016 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2017 г. (па версіі ej.by)Нацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьШчыльнасць насельніцтва па краінахhttp://naviny.by/rubrics/society/2011/09/16/ic_articles_116_175144/А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Спробы засялення краю неандэртальскім чалавекам.І ў Менску былі мамантыА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіГ. Штыхаў. Балты і славяне ў VI—VIII стст.М. Клімаў. Полацкае княства ў IX—XI стст.Г. Штыхаў, В. Ляўко. Палітычная гісторыя Полацкай зямліГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахБеларускія землі ў складзе Вялікага Княства ЛітоўскагаЛюблінская унія 1569 г."The Early Stages of Independence"Zapomniane prawdy25 гадоў таму было аб'яўлена, што Язэп Пілсудскі — беларус (фота)Наша вадаДакументы ЧАЭС: Забруджванне тэрыторыі Беларусі « ЧАЭС Зона адчужэнняСведения о политических партиях, зарегистрированных в Республике Беларусь // Министерство юстиции Республики БеларусьСтатыстычны бюлетэнь „Полаўзроставая структура насельніцтва Рэспублікі Беларусь на 1 студзеня 2012 года і сярэднегадовая колькасць насельніцтва за 2011 год“Индекс человеческого развития Беларуси — не было бы нижеБеларусь занимает первое место в СНГ по индексу развития с учетом гендерного факцёраНацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьКанстытуцыя РБ. Артыкул 17Трансфармацыйныя задачы БеларусіВыйсце з крызісу — далейшае рэфармаванне Беларускі рубель — сусветны лідар па дэвальвацыяхПра змену коштаў у кастрычніку 2011 г.Бядней за беларусаў у СНД толькі таджыкіСярэдні заробак у верасні дасягнуў 2,26 мільёна рублёўЭканомікаГаласуем за ТОП-100 беларускай прозыСучасныя беларускія мастакіАрхитектура Беларуси BELARUS.BYА. Каханоўскі. Культура Беларусі ўсярэдзіне XVII—XVIII ст.Анталогія беларускай народнай песні, гуказапісы спеваўБеларускія Музычныя IнструментыБеларускі рок, які мы страцілі. Топ-10 гуртоў«Мясцовы час» — нязгаслая легенда беларускай рок-музыкіСЯРГЕЙ БУДКІН. МЫ НЯ ЗНАЕМ СВАЁЙ МУЗЫКІМ. А. Каладзінскі. НАРОДНЫ ТЭАТРМагнацкія культурныя цэнтрыПублічная дыскусія «Беларуская новая пьеса: без беларускай мовы ці беларуская?»Беларускія драматургі па-ранейшаму лепш ставяцца за мяжой, чым на радзіме«Працэс незалежнага кіно пайшоў, і дзяржаву турбуе яго непадкантрольнасць»Беларускія філосафы ў пошуках прасторыВсе идём в библиотекуАрхіваванаАб Нацыянальнай праграме даследавання і выкарыстання касмічнай прасторы ў мірных мэтах на 2008—2012 гадыУ космас — разам.У суседнім з Барысаўскім раёне пабудуюць Камандна-вымяральны пунктСвяты і абрады беларусаў«Мірныя бульбашы з малой краіны» — 5 непраўдзівых стэрэатыпаў пра БеларусьМ. Раманюк. Беларускае народнае адзеннеУ Беларусі скарачаецца колькасць злачынстваўЛукашэнка незадаволены мінскімі ўладамі Крадзяжы складаюць у Мінску каля 70% злачынстваў Узровень злачыннасці ў Мінскай вобласці — адзін з самых высокіх у краіне Генпракуратура аналізуе стан са злачыннасцю ў Беларусі па каэфіцыенце злачыннасці У Беларусі стабілізавалася крымінагеннае становішча, лічыць генпракурорЗамежнікі сталі здзяйсняць у Беларусі больш злачынстваўМУС Беларусі турбуе рост рэцыдыўнай злачыннасціЯ з ЖЭСа. Дазволіце вас абкрасці! Рэйтынг усіх службаў і падраздзяленняў ГУУС Мінгарвыканкама вырасАб КДБ РБГісторыя Аператыўна-аналітычнага цэнтра РБГісторыя ДКФРТаможняagentura.ruБеларусьBelarus.by — Афіцыйны сайт Рэспублікі БеларусьСайт урада БеларусіRadzima.org — Збор архітэктурных помнікаў, гісторыя Беларусі«Глобус Беларуси»Гербы и флаги БеларусиАсаблівасці каменнага веку на БеларусіА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіУ. Ксяндзоў. Сярэдні каменны век (мезаліт). Засяленне краю плямёнамі паляўнічых, рыбакоў і збіральнікаўА. Калечыц, М. Чарняўскі. Плямёны на тэрыторыі Беларусі ў новым каменным веку (неаліце)А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў, М. Чарняўскі. Гаспадарчыя заняткі ў каменным векуЭ. Зайкоўскі. Духоўная культура ў каменным векуАсаблівасці бронзавага веку на БеларусіФарміраванне супольнасцей ранняга перыяду бронзавага векуФотографии БеларусиРоля беларускіх зямель ва ўтварэнні і ўмацаванні ВКЛВ. Фадзеева. З гісторыі развіцця беларускай народнай вышыўкіDMOZGran catalanaБольшая российскаяBritannica (анлайн)Швейцарскі гістарычны15325917611952699xDA123282154079143-90000 0001 2171 2080n9112870100577502ge128882171858027501086026362074122714179пппппп

                    Герб Смалявічаў Апісанне | Спасылкі | НавігацыяГерб города Смолевичип