How to infer difference of population proportion between two groups when proportion is small? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Comparing relative frequencies between two groupsTwo Sample Proportion Test - Finite PopulationHow can I test the difference between a population proportion and sample proportion?Comparing proportions between two mega-groupsWhat should the estimated proportion be for the population when the sample proportion is 1?Difference between Fisher exact and Wilson score when calculating proportion CIHow to find Population proportion confidence interval when n*p is less than 5?Two Sample Test for Difference of Proportion, when the probabilities are very close to zeroTest difference of population proportion and weighted sample proportionDifference between groups

How do you cope with tons of web fonts when copying and pasting from web pages?

Where did Ptolemy compare the Earth to the distance of fixed stars?

Problem with display of presentation

What are some likely causes to domain member PC losing contact to domain controller?

The test team as an enemy of development? And how can this be avoided?

Is the time—manner—place ordering of adverbials an oversimplification?

Why not use the yoke to control yaw, as well as pitch and roll?

How to achieve cat-like agility?

Is the Mordenkainen's Sword spell underpowered?

Pointing to problems without suggesting solutions

How to ask rejected full-time candidates to apply to teach individual courses?

Do i imagine the linear (straight line) homotopy in a correct way?

Sally's older brother

Calculation of line of sight system gain

What should one know about term logic before studying propositional and predicate logic?

First paper to introduce the "principal-agent problem"

Should man-made satellites feature an intelligent inverted "cow catcher"?

NIntegrate on a solution of a matrix ODE

Can gravitational waves pass through a black hole?

As a dual citizen, my US passport will expire one day after traveling to the US. Will this work?

Are there any irrational/transcendental numbers for which the distribution of decimal digits is not uniform?

How does the body cool itself in a stillsuit?

French equivalents of おしゃれは足元から (Every good outfit starts with the shoes)

How does TikZ render an arc?



How to infer difference of population proportion between two groups when proportion is small?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Comparing relative frequencies between two groupsTwo Sample Proportion Test - Finite PopulationHow can I test the difference between a population proportion and sample proportion?Comparing proportions between two mega-groupsWhat should the estimated proportion be for the population when the sample proportion is 1?Difference between Fisher exact and Wilson score when calculating proportion CIHow to find Population proportion confidence interval when n*p is less than 5?Two Sample Test for Difference of Proportion, when the probabilities are very close to zeroTest difference of population proportion and weighted sample proportionDifference between groups



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








1












$begingroup$


I have a dataset where the issue is of this form.



There are two groups, Group A (N=5000) and Group B (N=1000). Let's say 5 people in Group A develop a certain disease, and only 2 in group B do.



Then the proportion for A is 5/5000 -> 0.001 and for B it is 2/1000 -> 0.002.



How can I test if the proportion between these two groups is statistically significant?



The tests I found online rely on the Central Limit Theorem, such that np>=10 and n(1-p) >= 10, which does not hold for my dataset. Are there any other approaches?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – BruceET
    2 hours ago

















1












$begingroup$


I have a dataset where the issue is of this form.



There are two groups, Group A (N=5000) and Group B (N=1000). Let's say 5 people in Group A develop a certain disease, and only 2 in group B do.



Then the proportion for A is 5/5000 -> 0.001 and for B it is 2/1000 -> 0.002.



How can I test if the proportion between these two groups is statistically significant?



The tests I found online rely on the Central Limit Theorem, such that np>=10 and n(1-p) >= 10, which does not hold for my dataset. Are there any other approaches?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – BruceET
    2 hours ago













1












1








1





$begingroup$


I have a dataset where the issue is of this form.



There are two groups, Group A (N=5000) and Group B (N=1000). Let's say 5 people in Group A develop a certain disease, and only 2 in group B do.



Then the proportion for A is 5/5000 -> 0.001 and for B it is 2/1000 -> 0.002.



How can I test if the proportion between these two groups is statistically significant?



The tests I found online rely on the Central Limit Theorem, such that np>=10 and n(1-p) >= 10, which does not hold for my dataset. Are there any other approaches?










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I have a dataset where the issue is of this form.



There are two groups, Group A (N=5000) and Group B (N=1000). Let's say 5 people in Group A develop a certain disease, and only 2 in group B do.



Then the proportion for A is 5/5000 -> 0.001 and for B it is 2/1000 -> 0.002.



How can I test if the proportion between these two groups is statistically significant?



The tests I found online rely on the Central Limit Theorem, such that np>=10 and n(1-p) >= 10, which does not hold for my dataset. Are there any other approaches?







inference proportion






share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question






New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 6 hours ago









maxmax

1083




1083




New contributor




max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






max is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • $begingroup$
    Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – BruceET
    2 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
    $endgroup$
    – BruceET
    2 hours ago















$begingroup$
Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
$endgroup$
– BruceET
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
Use Fisher Exact Test per discussion in Answer.
$endgroup$
– BruceET
2 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

The traditional approach would be to do a 2-sample test for a difference in proportions: In Minitab, results of this test are as shown below. The warning about the first P-value from a normal approximation causes doubt,
roughly for the reasons you mention.



However, the result from Fisher's exact test uses an exact hypergeometric
probability. It also shows no significant difference.



Test and CI for Two Proportions 

Sample X N Sample p
1 5 5000 0.001000
2 2 1000 0.002000

Difference = p (1) - p (2)
Estimate for difference: -0.001
95% upper bound for difference: 0.00143738
Test for difference = 0 (vs < 0):
Z = -0.67 P-Value = 0.250

* NOTE * The normal approximation may be
inaccurate for small samples.

Fisher’s exact test: P-Value = 0.330


A direct hypergeometric computation in R can be argued
as follows. Suppose an urn contains $5000$ tokens marked A and $1000$ marked B. Seven tokens are taken
at random without replacement, corresponding to disease.
What is the probability five or fewer of those are marked A?



The answer is



$$sum_k=0^5frac5000 choose k1000 choose 7-k6000 choose 7 = 0.3302,$$



which agrees with the P-value from Fisher's exact test.



In R, the computation can be done in terms of a hypergeometric CDF:



phyper(5, 5000, 1000, 7)
[1] 0.330204


Here is a plot of this hypergeometric distribution. The P-value is the sum of the heights of the bars to the left of the vertical dotted line.



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer








    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "65"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );






    max is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fstats.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f404331%2fhow-to-infer-difference-of-population-proportion-between-two-groups-when-proport%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    2












    $begingroup$

    The traditional approach would be to do a 2-sample test for a difference in proportions: In Minitab, results of this test are as shown below. The warning about the first P-value from a normal approximation causes doubt,
    roughly for the reasons you mention.



    However, the result from Fisher's exact test uses an exact hypergeometric
    probability. It also shows no significant difference.



    Test and CI for Two Proportions 

    Sample X N Sample p
    1 5 5000 0.001000
    2 2 1000 0.002000

    Difference = p (1) - p (2)
    Estimate for difference: -0.001
    95% upper bound for difference: 0.00143738
    Test for difference = 0 (vs < 0):
    Z = -0.67 P-Value = 0.250

    * NOTE * The normal approximation may be
    inaccurate for small samples.

    Fisher’s exact test: P-Value = 0.330


    A direct hypergeometric computation in R can be argued
    as follows. Suppose an urn contains $5000$ tokens marked A and $1000$ marked B. Seven tokens are taken
    at random without replacement, corresponding to disease.
    What is the probability five or fewer of those are marked A?



    The answer is



    $$sum_k=0^5frac5000 choose k1000 choose 7-k6000 choose 7 = 0.3302,$$



    which agrees with the P-value from Fisher's exact test.



    In R, the computation can be done in terms of a hypergeometric CDF:



    phyper(5, 5000, 1000, 7)
    [1] 0.330204


    Here is a plot of this hypergeometric distribution. The P-value is the sum of the heights of the bars to the left of the vertical dotted line.



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      2












      $begingroup$

      The traditional approach would be to do a 2-sample test for a difference in proportions: In Minitab, results of this test are as shown below. The warning about the first P-value from a normal approximation causes doubt,
      roughly for the reasons you mention.



      However, the result from Fisher's exact test uses an exact hypergeometric
      probability. It also shows no significant difference.



      Test and CI for Two Proportions 

      Sample X N Sample p
      1 5 5000 0.001000
      2 2 1000 0.002000

      Difference = p (1) - p (2)
      Estimate for difference: -0.001
      95% upper bound for difference: 0.00143738
      Test for difference = 0 (vs < 0):
      Z = -0.67 P-Value = 0.250

      * NOTE * The normal approximation may be
      inaccurate for small samples.

      Fisher’s exact test: P-Value = 0.330


      A direct hypergeometric computation in R can be argued
      as follows. Suppose an urn contains $5000$ tokens marked A and $1000$ marked B. Seven tokens are taken
      at random without replacement, corresponding to disease.
      What is the probability five or fewer of those are marked A?



      The answer is



      $$sum_k=0^5frac5000 choose k1000 choose 7-k6000 choose 7 = 0.3302,$$



      which agrees with the P-value from Fisher's exact test.



      In R, the computation can be done in terms of a hypergeometric CDF:



      phyper(5, 5000, 1000, 7)
      [1] 0.330204


      Here is a plot of this hypergeometric distribution. The P-value is the sum of the heights of the bars to the left of the vertical dotted line.



      enter image description here






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        The traditional approach would be to do a 2-sample test for a difference in proportions: In Minitab, results of this test are as shown below. The warning about the first P-value from a normal approximation causes doubt,
        roughly for the reasons you mention.



        However, the result from Fisher's exact test uses an exact hypergeometric
        probability. It also shows no significant difference.



        Test and CI for Two Proportions 

        Sample X N Sample p
        1 5 5000 0.001000
        2 2 1000 0.002000

        Difference = p (1) - p (2)
        Estimate for difference: -0.001
        95% upper bound for difference: 0.00143738
        Test for difference = 0 (vs < 0):
        Z = -0.67 P-Value = 0.250

        * NOTE * The normal approximation may be
        inaccurate for small samples.

        Fisher’s exact test: P-Value = 0.330


        A direct hypergeometric computation in R can be argued
        as follows. Suppose an urn contains $5000$ tokens marked A and $1000$ marked B. Seven tokens are taken
        at random without replacement, corresponding to disease.
        What is the probability five or fewer of those are marked A?



        The answer is



        $$sum_k=0^5frac5000 choose k1000 choose 7-k6000 choose 7 = 0.3302,$$



        which agrees with the P-value from Fisher's exact test.



        In R, the computation can be done in terms of a hypergeometric CDF:



        phyper(5, 5000, 1000, 7)
        [1] 0.330204


        Here is a plot of this hypergeometric distribution. The P-value is the sum of the heights of the bars to the left of the vertical dotted line.



        enter image description here






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        The traditional approach would be to do a 2-sample test for a difference in proportions: In Minitab, results of this test are as shown below. The warning about the first P-value from a normal approximation causes doubt,
        roughly for the reasons you mention.



        However, the result from Fisher's exact test uses an exact hypergeometric
        probability. It also shows no significant difference.



        Test and CI for Two Proportions 

        Sample X N Sample p
        1 5 5000 0.001000
        2 2 1000 0.002000

        Difference = p (1) - p (2)
        Estimate for difference: -0.001
        95% upper bound for difference: 0.00143738
        Test for difference = 0 (vs < 0):
        Z = -0.67 P-Value = 0.250

        * NOTE * The normal approximation may be
        inaccurate for small samples.

        Fisher’s exact test: P-Value = 0.330


        A direct hypergeometric computation in R can be argued
        as follows. Suppose an urn contains $5000$ tokens marked A and $1000$ marked B. Seven tokens are taken
        at random without replacement, corresponding to disease.
        What is the probability five or fewer of those are marked A?



        The answer is



        $$sum_k=0^5frac5000 choose k1000 choose 7-k6000 choose 7 = 0.3302,$$



        which agrees with the P-value from Fisher's exact test.



        In R, the computation can be done in terms of a hypergeometric CDF:



        phyper(5, 5000, 1000, 7)
        [1] 0.330204


        Here is a plot of this hypergeometric distribution. The P-value is the sum of the heights of the bars to the left of the vertical dotted line.



        enter image description here







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered 2 hours ago









        BruceETBruceET

        7,0461721




        7,0461721




















            max is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            max is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












            max is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











            max is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














            Thanks for contributing an answer to Cross Validated!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fstats.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f404331%2fhow-to-infer-difference-of-population-proportion-between-two-groups-when-proport%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Францішак Багушэвіч Змест Сям'я | Біяграфія | Творчасць | Мова Багушэвіча | Ацэнкі дзейнасці | Цікавыя факты | Спадчына | Выбраная бібліяграфія | Ушанаванне памяці | У філатэліі | Зноскі | Літаратура | Спасылкі | НавігацыяЛяхоўскі У. Рупіўся дзеля Бога і людзей: Жыццёвы шлях Лявона Вітан-Дубейкаўскага // Вольскі і Памідораў з песняй пра немца Адвакат, паэт, народны заступнік Ашмянскі веснікВ Минске появится площадь Богушевича и улица Сырокомли, Белорусская деловая газета, 19 июля 2001 г.Айцец беларускай нацыянальнай ідэі паўстаў у бронзе Сяргей Аляксандравіч Адашкевіч (1918, Мінск). 80-я гады. Бюст «Францішак Багушэвіч».Яўген Мікалаевіч Ціхановіч. «Партрэт Францішка Багушэвіча»Мікола Мікалаевіч Купава. «Партрэт зачынальніка новай беларускай літаратуры Францішка Багушэвіча»Уладзімір Іванавіч Мелехаў. На помніку «Змагарам за родную мову» Барэльеф «Францішак Багушэвіч»Памяць пра Багушэвіча на Віленшчыне Страчаная сталіца. Беларускія шыльды на вуліцах Вільні«Krynica». Ideologia i przywódcy białoruskiego katolicyzmuФранцішак БагушэвічТворы на knihi.comТворы Францішка Багушэвіча на bellib.byСодаль Уладзімір. Францішак Багушэвіч на Лідчыне;Луцкевіч Антон. Жыцьцё і творчасьць Фр. Багушэвіча ў успамінах ягоных сучасьнікаў // Запісы Беларускага Навуковага таварыства. Вільня, 1938. Сшытак 1. С. 16-34.Большая российская1188761710000 0000 5537 633Xn9209310021619551927869394п

            Partai Komunis Tiongkok Daftar isi Kepemimpinan | Pranala luar | Referensi | Menu navigasidiperiksa1 perubahan tertundacpc.people.com.cnSitus resmiSurat kabar resmi"Why the Communist Party is alive, well and flourishing in China"0307-1235"Full text of Constitution of Communist Party of China"smengembangkannyas

            ValueError: Expected n_neighbors <= n_samples, but n_samples = 1, n_neighbors = 6 (SMOTE) The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InCan SMOTE be applied over sequence of words (sentences)?ValueError when doing validation with random forestsSMOTE and multi class oversamplingLogic behind SMOTE-NC?ValueError: Error when checking target: expected dense_1 to have shape (7,) but got array with shape (1,)SmoteBoost: Should SMOTE be ran individually for each iteration/tree in the boosting?solving multi-class imbalance classification using smote and OSSUsing SMOTE for Synthetic Data generation to improve performance on unbalanced dataproblem of entry format for a simple model in KerasSVM SMOTE fit_resample() function runs forever with no result