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How do I say “this must not happen”?



Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Are there examples of passive imperative forms of non-deponent verbs in ancient literature?When can the gerund take an object?How to emphasize adjectives?Is the complement of esse in nominative or accusative when esse is a subject?Should the phrase “I often saw” use the imperfect or the aorist in Greek?Passives Without AccusativesJenney's Second Year Latin, Lesson 12, exercise E: Ut clauses and how to translate English infinitivesMisquoting Linnaeus or correcting him?Passive periphrastic with two dativesExpressing English modalities of advice in LatinHow can you tell whether prefixed ‘in-’ is the preposition ‘in’ or Indo-European ‘in-’?










3















I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".



But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).










share|improve this question




























    3















    I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".



    But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).










    share|improve this question


























      3












      3








      3








      I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".



      But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).










      share|improve this question
















      I'm used to translating English auxiliary "must" with a Latin gerundive: hic necandus est "this man must be killed".



      But what if I want to say "this man must not be killed"? I would read non necandus est as "it's not necessary to kill him", which is a somewhat different meaning (it's ambivalent about whether he should be killed or not).







      grammar-choice gerundivum negation






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 5 hours ago







      Draconis

















      asked 8 hours ago









      DraconisDraconis

      18.9k22676




      18.9k22676




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2














          In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
          For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
          To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
          But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.



          Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
          I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
          I would consider both readings valid in general.



          I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:



          1. Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est

          2. Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare

          3. Work it into the structure of a sentence: curandum est ne necetur

          4. In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare

            (There are also passive imperatives.)





          share|improve this answer
































            2














            There are three or four impersonal verbs to express what is appropriate, or legal, or obligatory.



            1 děcet, it is appropriate
            2 dēděcet, it is inapproptiate, unseemly.




            Ut nobis decet; As seems right to us.
            Oratorem irasci minime decet, simulare non dēděcet. It is not professional for an orator to get angry, it is not unprofessional to pretend (to get angry). Cicero Tusc., 4,25




            Non nos decet necare; ‘It is not right for us to kill.’
            Dedecet necare; ‘It is unseemly (uncouth? it is not very nice?) to kill.’



            3 Lĭcet, it is lawful

            (cf. illĭcĭtē, adv. illegally; illĭcĭtus adj., illegal)




            Lĭcet nemini peccare, Cicero Tusc., 5,19 'Nobody is permitted to do evil.'




            So, Licet nemini eum necare. 'It is not lawful to kill him.'



            4 Oportet, it is a duty, one ought.




            Est aliquid, quod non oporteat, etiam si licet; quicquid vero non licet, certe non oportet.

            'There is something which one ought not to do, even if it is legal; but anything illegal, certainly ought not to be done.' Cicero.




            Certe oportet non eum necare, 'Undoubtedly, one ought not to kill him.'






            share|improve this answer























            • I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              1 hour ago











            Your Answer








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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            active

            oldest

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            active

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            2














            In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
            For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
            To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
            But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.



            Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
            I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
            I would consider both readings valid in general.



            I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:



            1. Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est

            2. Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare

            3. Work it into the structure of a sentence: curandum est ne necetur

            4. In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare

              (There are also passive imperatives.)





            share|improve this answer





























              2














              In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
              For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
              To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
              But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.



              Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
              I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
              I would consider both readings valid in general.



              I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:



              1. Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est

              2. Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare

              3. Work it into the structure of a sentence: curandum est ne necetur

              4. In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare

                (There are also passive imperatives.)





              share|improve this answer



























                2












                2








                2







                In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
                For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
                To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
                But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.



                Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
                I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
                I would consider both readings valid in general.



                I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:



                1. Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est

                2. Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare

                3. Work it into the structure of a sentence: curandum est ne necetur

                4. In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare

                  (There are also passive imperatives.)





                share|improve this answer















                In my experience many languages confuse lack of desire and desire of the contrary.
                For example, I would like to be able to say "I don't want coffee" as the negation of "I want coffee", meaning that I don't have a desire to have coffee.
                To say that I am actively against drinking coffee, I would prefer to say "I want not to have coffee".
                But, unfortunately, English doesn't work this way, and "I don't want coffee" is construed as "I want not to have coffee" instead of the more ambivalent reading.



                Similarly, the Latin non necandus est is more literally "it is not necessary to kill him" but could also be read as "it is necessary not to kill him".
                I found examples of similar constructions, but it is not easy to decide which meaning is intended in each case.
                I would consider both readings valid in general.



                I see a couple of ways to express "it is necessary to not kill him" without ambiguity:



                1. Take a new verb with the opposite meaning: servandus est

                2. Explain in more words: necesse est eum non necare

                3. Work it into the structure of a sentence: curandum est ne necetur

                4. In some cases you might be able to use a negative order: noli(te) eum necare

                  (There are also passive imperatives.)






                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 3 hours ago

























                answered 6 hours ago









                Joonas IlmavirtaJoonas Ilmavirta

                49.3k1271288




                49.3k1271288





















                    2














                    There are three or four impersonal verbs to express what is appropriate, or legal, or obligatory.



                    1 děcet, it is appropriate
                    2 dēděcet, it is inapproptiate, unseemly.




                    Ut nobis decet; As seems right to us.
                    Oratorem irasci minime decet, simulare non dēděcet. It is not professional for an orator to get angry, it is not unprofessional to pretend (to get angry). Cicero Tusc., 4,25




                    Non nos decet necare; ‘It is not right for us to kill.’
                    Dedecet necare; ‘It is unseemly (uncouth? it is not very nice?) to kill.’



                    3 Lĭcet, it is lawful

                    (cf. illĭcĭtē, adv. illegally; illĭcĭtus adj., illegal)




                    Lĭcet nemini peccare, Cicero Tusc., 5,19 'Nobody is permitted to do evil.'




                    So, Licet nemini eum necare. 'It is not lawful to kill him.'



                    4 Oportet, it is a duty, one ought.




                    Est aliquid, quod non oporteat, etiam si licet; quicquid vero non licet, certe non oportet.

                    'There is something which one ought not to do, even if it is legal; but anything illegal, certainly ought not to be done.' Cicero.




                    Certe oportet non eum necare, 'Undoubtedly, one ought not to kill him.'






                    share|improve this answer























                    • I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      1 hour ago















                    2














                    There are three or four impersonal verbs to express what is appropriate, or legal, or obligatory.



                    1 děcet, it is appropriate
                    2 dēděcet, it is inapproptiate, unseemly.




                    Ut nobis decet; As seems right to us.
                    Oratorem irasci minime decet, simulare non dēděcet. It is not professional for an orator to get angry, it is not unprofessional to pretend (to get angry). Cicero Tusc., 4,25




                    Non nos decet necare; ‘It is not right for us to kill.’
                    Dedecet necare; ‘It is unseemly (uncouth? it is not very nice?) to kill.’



                    3 Lĭcet, it is lawful

                    (cf. illĭcĭtē, adv. illegally; illĭcĭtus adj., illegal)




                    Lĭcet nemini peccare, Cicero Tusc., 5,19 'Nobody is permitted to do evil.'




                    So, Licet nemini eum necare. 'It is not lawful to kill him.'



                    4 Oportet, it is a duty, one ought.




                    Est aliquid, quod non oporteat, etiam si licet; quicquid vero non licet, certe non oportet.

                    'There is something which one ought not to do, even if it is legal; but anything illegal, certainly ought not to be done.' Cicero.




                    Certe oportet non eum necare, 'Undoubtedly, one ought not to kill him.'






                    share|improve this answer























                    • I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      1 hour ago













                    2












                    2








                    2







                    There are three or four impersonal verbs to express what is appropriate, or legal, or obligatory.



                    1 děcet, it is appropriate
                    2 dēděcet, it is inapproptiate, unseemly.




                    Ut nobis decet; As seems right to us.
                    Oratorem irasci minime decet, simulare non dēděcet. It is not professional for an orator to get angry, it is not unprofessional to pretend (to get angry). Cicero Tusc., 4,25




                    Non nos decet necare; ‘It is not right for us to kill.’
                    Dedecet necare; ‘It is unseemly (uncouth? it is not very nice?) to kill.’



                    3 Lĭcet, it is lawful

                    (cf. illĭcĭtē, adv. illegally; illĭcĭtus adj., illegal)




                    Lĭcet nemini peccare, Cicero Tusc., 5,19 'Nobody is permitted to do evil.'




                    So, Licet nemini eum necare. 'It is not lawful to kill him.'



                    4 Oportet, it is a duty, one ought.




                    Est aliquid, quod non oporteat, etiam si licet; quicquid vero non licet, certe non oportet.

                    'There is something which one ought not to do, even if it is legal; but anything illegal, certainly ought not to be done.' Cicero.




                    Certe oportet non eum necare, 'Undoubtedly, one ought not to kill him.'






                    share|improve this answer













                    There are three or four impersonal verbs to express what is appropriate, or legal, or obligatory.



                    1 děcet, it is appropriate
                    2 dēděcet, it is inapproptiate, unseemly.




                    Ut nobis decet; As seems right to us.
                    Oratorem irasci minime decet, simulare non dēděcet. It is not professional for an orator to get angry, it is not unprofessional to pretend (to get angry). Cicero Tusc., 4,25




                    Non nos decet necare; ‘It is not right for us to kill.’
                    Dedecet necare; ‘It is unseemly (uncouth? it is not very nice?) to kill.’



                    3 Lĭcet, it is lawful

                    (cf. illĭcĭtē, adv. illegally; illĭcĭtus adj., illegal)




                    Lĭcet nemini peccare, Cicero Tusc., 5,19 'Nobody is permitted to do evil.'




                    So, Licet nemini eum necare. 'It is not lawful to kill him.'



                    4 Oportet, it is a duty, one ought.




                    Est aliquid, quod non oporteat, etiam si licet; quicquid vero non licet, certe non oportet.

                    'There is something which one ought not to do, even if it is legal; but anything illegal, certainly ought not to be done.' Cicero.




                    Certe oportet non eum necare, 'Undoubtedly, one ought not to kill him.'







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 1 hour ago









                    HughHugh

                    5,6902616




                    5,6902616












                    • I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      1 hour ago

















                    • I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      1 hour ago
















                    I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    1 hour ago





                    I really like using dedecet and illicitum est for this. (+1!) The others suffer from the ambiguity described in the question: one could read non oportet as "it is not a duty to" instead of "it is a duty not to".

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    1 hour ago

















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                    Беларусь Змест Назва Гісторыя Геаграфія Сімволіка Дзяржаўны лад Палітычныя партыі Міжнароднае становішча і знешняя палітыка Адміністрацыйны падзел Насельніцтва Эканоміка Культура і грамадства Сацыяльная сфера Узброеныя сілы Заўвагі Літаратура Спасылкі НавігацыяHGЯOiТоп-2011 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2013 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2016 г. (па версіі ej.by)Топ-2017 г. (па версіі ej.by)Нацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьШчыльнасць насельніцтва па краінахhttp://naviny.by/rubrics/society/2011/09/16/ic_articles_116_175144/А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Спробы засялення краю неандэртальскім чалавекам.І ў Менску былі мамантыА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіГ. Штыхаў. Балты і славяне ў VI—VIII стст.М. Клімаў. Полацкае княства ў IX—XI стст.Г. Штыхаў, В. Ляўко. Палітычная гісторыя Полацкай зямліГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахГ. Штыхаў. Дзяржаўны лад у землях-княствахБеларускія землі ў складзе Вялікага Княства ЛітоўскагаЛюблінская унія 1569 г."The Early Stages of Independence"Zapomniane prawdy25 гадоў таму было аб'яўлена, што Язэп Пілсудскі — беларус (фота)Наша вадаДакументы ЧАЭС: Забруджванне тэрыторыі Беларусі « ЧАЭС Зона адчужэнняСведения о политических партиях, зарегистрированных в Республике Беларусь // Министерство юстиции Республики БеларусьСтатыстычны бюлетэнь „Полаўзроставая структура насельніцтва Рэспублікі Беларусь на 1 студзеня 2012 года і сярэднегадовая колькасць насельніцтва за 2011 год“Индекс человеческого развития Беларуси — не было бы нижеБеларусь занимает первое место в СНГ по индексу развития с учетом гендерного факцёраНацыянальны статыстычны камітэт Рэспублікі БеларусьКанстытуцыя РБ. Артыкул 17Трансфармацыйныя задачы БеларусіВыйсце з крызісу — далейшае рэфармаванне Беларускі рубель — сусветны лідар па дэвальвацыяхПра змену коштаў у кастрычніку 2011 г.Бядней за беларусаў у СНД толькі таджыкіСярэдні заробак у верасні дасягнуў 2,26 мільёна рублёўЭканомікаГаласуем за ТОП-100 беларускай прозыСучасныя беларускія мастакіАрхитектура Беларуси BELARUS.BYА. Каханоўскі. Культура Беларусі ўсярэдзіне XVII—XVIII ст.Анталогія беларускай народнай песні, гуказапісы спеваўБеларускія Музычныя IнструментыБеларускі рок, які мы страцілі. Топ-10 гуртоў«Мясцовы час» — нязгаслая легенда беларускай рок-музыкіСЯРГЕЙ БУДКІН. МЫ НЯ ЗНАЕМ СВАЁЙ МУЗЫКІМ. А. Каладзінскі. НАРОДНЫ ТЭАТРМагнацкія культурныя цэнтрыПублічная дыскусія «Беларуская новая пьеса: без беларускай мовы ці беларуская?»Беларускія драматургі па-ранейшаму лепш ставяцца за мяжой, чым на радзіме«Працэс незалежнага кіно пайшоў, і дзяржаву турбуе яго непадкантрольнасць»Беларускія філосафы ў пошуках прасторыВсе идём в библиотекуАрхіваванаАб Нацыянальнай праграме даследавання і выкарыстання касмічнай прасторы ў мірных мэтах на 2008—2012 гадыУ космас — разам.У суседнім з Барысаўскім раёне пабудуюць Камандна-вымяральны пунктСвяты і абрады беларусаў«Мірныя бульбашы з малой краіны» — 5 непраўдзівых стэрэатыпаў пра БеларусьМ. Раманюк. Беларускае народнае адзеннеУ Беларусі скарачаецца колькасць злачынстваўЛукашэнка незадаволены мінскімі ўладамі Крадзяжы складаюць у Мінску каля 70% злачынстваў Узровень злачыннасці ў Мінскай вобласці — адзін з самых высокіх у краіне Генпракуратура аналізуе стан са злачыннасцю ў Беларусі па каэфіцыенце злачыннасці У Беларусі стабілізавалася крымінагеннае становішча, лічыць генпракурорЗамежнікі сталі здзяйсняць у Беларусі больш злачынстваўМУС Беларусі турбуе рост рэцыдыўнай злачыннасціЯ з ЖЭСа. Дазволіце вас абкрасці! Рэйтынг усіх службаў і падраздзяленняў ГУУС Мінгарвыканкама вырасАб КДБ РБГісторыя Аператыўна-аналітычнага цэнтра РБГісторыя ДКФРТаможняagentura.ruБеларусьBelarus.by — Афіцыйны сайт Рэспублікі БеларусьСайт урада БеларусіRadzima.org — Збор архітэктурных помнікаў, гісторыя Беларусі«Глобус Беларуси»Гербы и флаги БеларусиАсаблівасці каменнага веку на БеларусіА. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў. Старажытны каменны век (палеаліт). Першапачатковае засяленне тэрыторыіУ. Ксяндзоў. Сярэдні каменны век (мезаліт). Засяленне краю плямёнамі паляўнічых, рыбакоў і збіральнікаўА. Калечыц, М. Чарняўскі. Плямёны на тэрыторыі Беларусі ў новым каменным веку (неаліце)А. Калечыц, У. Ксяндзоў, М. Чарняўскі. Гаспадарчыя заняткі ў каменным векуЭ. Зайкоўскі. Духоўная культура ў каменным векуАсаблівасці бронзавага веку на БеларусіФарміраванне супольнасцей ранняга перыяду бронзавага векуФотографии БеларусиРоля беларускіх зямель ва ўтварэнні і ўмацаванні ВКЛВ. Фадзеева. З гісторыі развіцця беларускай народнай вышыўкіDMOZGran catalanaБольшая российскаяBritannica (анлайн)Швейцарскі гістарычны15325917611952699xDA123282154079143-90000 0001 2171 2080n9112870100577502ge128882171858027501086026362074122714179пппппп