Why can't the Brexit deadlock in the UK parliament be solved with a plurality vote?What happens if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal?What would be the subject of a second Brexit Referendum?Why is there such a long delay before putting the “Meaningful Vote” to the British ParliamentCould the UK Parliament defy the delay on the meaningful vote and simply vote on it?Why did the UK not have any post-EU exit deals agreed prior to June 2016?Can the UK deal selectively with Ireland post-Brexit without falling afoul of WTO rules?What will happen if Parliament votes “no” on each of the Brexit-related votes to be held on the 12th, 13th and 14th of March?What is the deadline if the UK wishes to apply for an extention to Article 50?Can an Article 50 extension take effect pending approval from national states?Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?
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Why can't the Brexit deadlock in the UK parliament be solved with a plurality vote?
What happens if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal?What would be the subject of a second Brexit Referendum?Why is there such a long delay before putting the “Meaningful Vote” to the British ParliamentCould the UK Parliament defy the delay on the meaningful vote and simply vote on it?Why did the UK not have any post-EU exit deals agreed prior to June 2016?Can the UK deal selectively with Ireland post-Brexit without falling afoul of WTO rules?What will happen if Parliament votes “no” on each of the Brexit-related votes to be held on the 12th, 13th and 14th of March?What is the deadline if the UK wishes to apply for an extention to Article 50?Can an Article 50 extension take effect pending approval from national states?Why is participating in the European Parliamentary elections used as a threat?
I doubt I am the only person that is frustrated and a bit perplexed by the current deadlock we are seeing in the UK parliament regarding Brexit. My question is: there appears to be a fairly well-defined list of possible options that are available:
- Accept the current deal being offered by the EU
- Continue to push and negotiate for a better deal (implying an extension to Article 50)
- Leave with no deal
- Hold a second referendum and put the question back to the people
- Unilateral withdrawal of article 50
So, why can't parliament simply hold a vote on these options and go with whichever one gains the most votes (even if it is a plurality, rather than a majority)?
The deadlock seems to stem (at least in part) from the fact that each individual option requires the agreement of the majority to be put into effect, yet there is no majority agreement on any of the available options. So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
Edit: Is there any procedural reason why such a plurality vote could not be held in the House of Commons?
united-kingdom brexit plurality-voting-system
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add a comment |
I doubt I am the only person that is frustrated and a bit perplexed by the current deadlock we are seeing in the UK parliament regarding Brexit. My question is: there appears to be a fairly well-defined list of possible options that are available:
- Accept the current deal being offered by the EU
- Continue to push and negotiate for a better deal (implying an extension to Article 50)
- Leave with no deal
- Hold a second referendum and put the question back to the people
- Unilateral withdrawal of article 50
So, why can't parliament simply hold a vote on these options and go with whichever one gains the most votes (even if it is a plurality, rather than a majority)?
The deadlock seems to stem (at least in part) from the fact that each individual option requires the agreement of the majority to be put into effect, yet there is no majority agreement on any of the available options. So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
Edit: Is there any procedural reason why such a plurality vote could not be held in the House of Commons?
united-kingdom brexit plurality-voting-system
New contributor
Time4Tea is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
1
5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago
add a comment |
I doubt I am the only person that is frustrated and a bit perplexed by the current deadlock we are seeing in the UK parliament regarding Brexit. My question is: there appears to be a fairly well-defined list of possible options that are available:
- Accept the current deal being offered by the EU
- Continue to push and negotiate for a better deal (implying an extension to Article 50)
- Leave with no deal
- Hold a second referendum and put the question back to the people
- Unilateral withdrawal of article 50
So, why can't parliament simply hold a vote on these options and go with whichever one gains the most votes (even if it is a plurality, rather than a majority)?
The deadlock seems to stem (at least in part) from the fact that each individual option requires the agreement of the majority to be put into effect, yet there is no majority agreement on any of the available options. So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
Edit: Is there any procedural reason why such a plurality vote could not be held in the House of Commons?
united-kingdom brexit plurality-voting-system
New contributor
Time4Tea is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I doubt I am the only person that is frustrated and a bit perplexed by the current deadlock we are seeing in the UK parliament regarding Brexit. My question is: there appears to be a fairly well-defined list of possible options that are available:
- Accept the current deal being offered by the EU
- Continue to push and negotiate for a better deal (implying an extension to Article 50)
- Leave with no deal
- Hold a second referendum and put the question back to the people
- Unilateral withdrawal of article 50
So, why can't parliament simply hold a vote on these options and go with whichever one gains the most votes (even if it is a plurality, rather than a majority)?
The deadlock seems to stem (at least in part) from the fact that each individual option requires the agreement of the majority to be put into effect, yet there is no majority agreement on any of the available options. So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
Edit: Is there any procedural reason why such a plurality vote could not be held in the House of Commons?
united-kingdom brexit plurality-voting-system
united-kingdom brexit plurality-voting-system
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Time4Tea is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
Time4Tea
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asked 3 hours ago
Time4TeaTime4Tea
1365
1365
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1
5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago
add a comment |
1
5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago
1
1
5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
Unfortunately for your idea, the core voting mechanism in Westminster (and the only one which is viewed as acceptable for legislation) requires a yes/no question and a binary vote. Indeed the voting actually occurs by travelling down corridors on either side of the debate lobby. Your options 1 and 4 require such a vote (for option one, a somewhat specific motion needs to pass to ratify the deal, while for option four several votes on the bill to create a second referendum would need to pass).
In principle options 2 or 3 could proceed through plurality if the House chose, since leaving with no deal is the default position if nothing else happens and since extending the date only requires there not to be a majority against such an action (and it's already known that there is majority in favour of requesting an extension).
In fact there have been several proposals to call a series of "indicative", non-binding votes along the lines of what you propose, which could conceivably form a consensus around the most popular option, but that still doesn't mean that an option the majority would vote down has much chance (excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
|
show 4 more comments
There is quite simply no mechanism in Parliament for a plurality vote among more than two options to exist. In order to have a plurality vote you would need to first pass a bill creating that mechanism, and the majority against the best predicted result would most like vote that bill down.
But even that might not work. The very next thing brought to vote might well be a binding vote to specifically cast down the result chosen from the plurality vote, and will have a majority backing that, so down it goes. There may or may not be procedures that would suffice to block this from coming to a vote, but blocking something with a known outcome from reaching the floor doesn't look like a democracy anymore.
add a comment |
Let's say the government proposes this and this vote is carried out. Then a majority of MPs are getting something they don't want (otherwise that outcome could be passed as a normal vote by simple majority). In particular, the government may get an outcome it doesn't want, the majority of parliament doesn't want but would have to carry it out (well, that would be part of the earlier proposition of this system, otherwise the vote would be meaningless). This isn't ideal.
Aside from that, those options aren't a one-time thing. These actions have consequences and once you choose an option, you have to follow through:
For example, if you accept the current deal, many laws will have to
be passed (which requires a majority, again).If they decide to keep on negotiating the impasse isn't broken, they
will just have one more option if a new deal is negotiated, but
there may be no majority for that one either.Leaving without a deal is like opening Pandora's box, it's not
something that solves all existing problems, instead many more
choices (e.g. what will be the policy on allowing EU citizens coming
to the UK? How are goods coming in checked?) will have to be made
and that requires a majority in parliament to do so.A second referendum also doesn't help if there is no majority in
favour of it. In the proposed plurality vote, do MPs commit to
respecting the outcome? Even if that means disrespecting the current
referendum outcome? If the outcome is to leave without a deal, what
instructions does that give the parliament / government with regards
to the previous point?
All in all, it's not that easy. And if MPs do decide they want to work together to get a certain outcome, they can just do that. They wouldn't need the plurality vote. For example, the leaders over the parties could meet, decide an outcome, whip their MPs and don't care about a few people not voting with their decision. Obviously, the problem is that the parties aren't willing to compromise in such a controlled setting, they're not going to allow a vote (for which they don't really know the outcome) and then magically decide to respect that.
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
There is no reason why these options could not be put to Parliament in series.
The House of Commons works by having the government propose motions that can be passed or rejected. Motions are allocated time to be debated and other MPs can propose amendments. Finally a series of votes on the amendments and finally on the motion (amended or otherwise) are held.
The problem is that on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on. And the government is mostly controlled by the Prime Minister, and Mrs May only wants one outcome: her deal is accepted.
As such it's extremely difficult to get votes on the other options. The best hope is for amendments to be accepted supporting those options, but even then the Speaker of the House gets to decide which amendments will be put to the vote so it's not always automatically possible to have them attached to a government motion.
So it's entirely possible, just very unlikely due to Theresa May.
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
add a comment |
So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
As of now, the British government is no longer in deadlock. There has already been a vote on all of the listed options except for option #5 and only the second option (asking for an extension) managed to receive more than 50% of the votes. Thus Theresa May asked for a three month delay on March 20th, currently pending approval by the European Council. Holding a plurality vote would be redundant as no other option had more than 50% of the MPs support.
In three months time (presuming the EU will grant the UK an extension), Parliament will again have to choose between the options, but this time asking for an extension would no longer be possible.
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
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votes
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Unfortunately for your idea, the core voting mechanism in Westminster (and the only one which is viewed as acceptable for legislation) requires a yes/no question and a binary vote. Indeed the voting actually occurs by travelling down corridors on either side of the debate lobby. Your options 1 and 4 require such a vote (for option one, a somewhat specific motion needs to pass to ratify the deal, while for option four several votes on the bill to create a second referendum would need to pass).
In principle options 2 or 3 could proceed through plurality if the House chose, since leaving with no deal is the default position if nothing else happens and since extending the date only requires there not to be a majority against such an action (and it's already known that there is majority in favour of requesting an extension).
In fact there have been several proposals to call a series of "indicative", non-binding votes along the lines of what you propose, which could conceivably form a consensus around the most popular option, but that still doesn't mean that an option the majority would vote down has much chance (excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
|
show 4 more comments
Unfortunately for your idea, the core voting mechanism in Westminster (and the only one which is viewed as acceptable for legislation) requires a yes/no question and a binary vote. Indeed the voting actually occurs by travelling down corridors on either side of the debate lobby. Your options 1 and 4 require such a vote (for option one, a somewhat specific motion needs to pass to ratify the deal, while for option four several votes on the bill to create a second referendum would need to pass).
In principle options 2 or 3 could proceed through plurality if the House chose, since leaving with no deal is the default position if nothing else happens and since extending the date only requires there not to be a majority against such an action (and it's already known that there is majority in favour of requesting an extension).
In fact there have been several proposals to call a series of "indicative", non-binding votes along the lines of what you propose, which could conceivably form a consensus around the most popular option, but that still doesn't mean that an option the majority would vote down has much chance (excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
|
show 4 more comments
Unfortunately for your idea, the core voting mechanism in Westminster (and the only one which is viewed as acceptable for legislation) requires a yes/no question and a binary vote. Indeed the voting actually occurs by travelling down corridors on either side of the debate lobby. Your options 1 and 4 require such a vote (for option one, a somewhat specific motion needs to pass to ratify the deal, while for option four several votes on the bill to create a second referendum would need to pass).
In principle options 2 or 3 could proceed through plurality if the House chose, since leaving with no deal is the default position if nothing else happens and since extending the date only requires there not to be a majority against such an action (and it's already known that there is majority in favour of requesting an extension).
In fact there have been several proposals to call a series of "indicative", non-binding votes along the lines of what you propose, which could conceivably form a consensus around the most popular option, but that still doesn't mean that an option the majority would vote down has much chance (excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)
Unfortunately for your idea, the core voting mechanism in Westminster (and the only one which is viewed as acceptable for legislation) requires a yes/no question and a binary vote. Indeed the voting actually occurs by travelling down corridors on either side of the debate lobby. Your options 1 and 4 require such a vote (for option one, a somewhat specific motion needs to pass to ratify the deal, while for option four several votes on the bill to create a second referendum would need to pass).
In principle options 2 or 3 could proceed through plurality if the House chose, since leaving with no deal is the default position if nothing else happens and since extending the date only requires there not to be a majority against such an action (and it's already known that there is majority in favour of requesting an extension).
In fact there have been several proposals to call a series of "indicative", non-binding votes along the lines of what you propose, which could conceivably form a consensus around the most popular option, but that still doesn't mean that an option the majority would vote down has much chance (excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
origimboorigimbo
12k23046
12k23046
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
|
show 4 more comments
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.)Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
1
1
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.) Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.– JJJ
2 hours ago
(excepting option 3 which could essentially happen by accident at this point.) Ironically, that is the only of the four options MPs could agree they don't want.– JJJ
2 hours ago
1
1
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
@JJJ At one point or other options 1 and option 4 have met that standard. Both rather heavily.
– origimbo
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
Yes, but no-deal is the only option they voted for not wanting. The other options they just voted away.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
2
2
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
@Time4Tea In theory parliament can do anything except irrevocably binding the hands of a future parliament. In practice it's very unlikely a parliament would move to allow statute to be created by a minority of its members, due to the unfortunate precedent it would create.
– origimbo
1 hour ago
1
1
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
@Time4Tea Note that matters of procedure are normally dealt with by changes to the Commons standing orders, not by legislation. The house can do this by a simple majority vote, and changes can be permanent or for a defined amount of time. The most common form of this is for specified standing orders to be suspended for a particular motion before the house.
– Steve Melnikoff
1 hour ago
|
show 4 more comments
There is quite simply no mechanism in Parliament for a plurality vote among more than two options to exist. In order to have a plurality vote you would need to first pass a bill creating that mechanism, and the majority against the best predicted result would most like vote that bill down.
But even that might not work. The very next thing brought to vote might well be a binding vote to specifically cast down the result chosen from the plurality vote, and will have a majority backing that, so down it goes. There may or may not be procedures that would suffice to block this from coming to a vote, but blocking something with a known outcome from reaching the floor doesn't look like a democracy anymore.
add a comment |
There is quite simply no mechanism in Parliament for a plurality vote among more than two options to exist. In order to have a plurality vote you would need to first pass a bill creating that mechanism, and the majority against the best predicted result would most like vote that bill down.
But even that might not work. The very next thing brought to vote might well be a binding vote to specifically cast down the result chosen from the plurality vote, and will have a majority backing that, so down it goes. There may or may not be procedures that would suffice to block this from coming to a vote, but blocking something with a known outcome from reaching the floor doesn't look like a democracy anymore.
add a comment |
There is quite simply no mechanism in Parliament for a plurality vote among more than two options to exist. In order to have a plurality vote you would need to first pass a bill creating that mechanism, and the majority against the best predicted result would most like vote that bill down.
But even that might not work. The very next thing brought to vote might well be a binding vote to specifically cast down the result chosen from the plurality vote, and will have a majority backing that, so down it goes. There may or may not be procedures that would suffice to block this from coming to a vote, but blocking something with a known outcome from reaching the floor doesn't look like a democracy anymore.
There is quite simply no mechanism in Parliament for a plurality vote among more than two options to exist. In order to have a plurality vote you would need to first pass a bill creating that mechanism, and the majority against the best predicted result would most like vote that bill down.
But even that might not work. The very next thing brought to vote might well be a binding vote to specifically cast down the result chosen from the plurality vote, and will have a majority backing that, so down it goes. There may or may not be procedures that would suffice to block this from coming to a vote, but blocking something with a known outcome from reaching the floor doesn't look like a democracy anymore.
answered 49 mins ago
JoshuaJoshua
632512
632512
add a comment |
add a comment |
Let's say the government proposes this and this vote is carried out. Then a majority of MPs are getting something they don't want (otherwise that outcome could be passed as a normal vote by simple majority). In particular, the government may get an outcome it doesn't want, the majority of parliament doesn't want but would have to carry it out (well, that would be part of the earlier proposition of this system, otherwise the vote would be meaningless). This isn't ideal.
Aside from that, those options aren't a one-time thing. These actions have consequences and once you choose an option, you have to follow through:
For example, if you accept the current deal, many laws will have to
be passed (which requires a majority, again).If they decide to keep on negotiating the impasse isn't broken, they
will just have one more option if a new deal is negotiated, but
there may be no majority for that one either.Leaving without a deal is like opening Pandora's box, it's not
something that solves all existing problems, instead many more
choices (e.g. what will be the policy on allowing EU citizens coming
to the UK? How are goods coming in checked?) will have to be made
and that requires a majority in parliament to do so.A second referendum also doesn't help if there is no majority in
favour of it. In the proposed plurality vote, do MPs commit to
respecting the outcome? Even if that means disrespecting the current
referendum outcome? If the outcome is to leave without a deal, what
instructions does that give the parliament / government with regards
to the previous point?
All in all, it's not that easy. And if MPs do decide they want to work together to get a certain outcome, they can just do that. They wouldn't need the plurality vote. For example, the leaders over the parties could meet, decide an outcome, whip their MPs and don't care about a few people not voting with their decision. Obviously, the problem is that the parties aren't willing to compromise in such a controlled setting, they're not going to allow a vote (for which they don't really know the outcome) and then magically decide to respect that.
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
Let's say the government proposes this and this vote is carried out. Then a majority of MPs are getting something they don't want (otherwise that outcome could be passed as a normal vote by simple majority). In particular, the government may get an outcome it doesn't want, the majority of parliament doesn't want but would have to carry it out (well, that would be part of the earlier proposition of this system, otherwise the vote would be meaningless). This isn't ideal.
Aside from that, those options aren't a one-time thing. These actions have consequences and once you choose an option, you have to follow through:
For example, if you accept the current deal, many laws will have to
be passed (which requires a majority, again).If they decide to keep on negotiating the impasse isn't broken, they
will just have one more option if a new deal is negotiated, but
there may be no majority for that one either.Leaving without a deal is like opening Pandora's box, it's not
something that solves all existing problems, instead many more
choices (e.g. what will be the policy on allowing EU citizens coming
to the UK? How are goods coming in checked?) will have to be made
and that requires a majority in parliament to do so.A second referendum also doesn't help if there is no majority in
favour of it. In the proposed plurality vote, do MPs commit to
respecting the outcome? Even if that means disrespecting the current
referendum outcome? If the outcome is to leave without a deal, what
instructions does that give the parliament / government with regards
to the previous point?
All in all, it's not that easy. And if MPs do decide they want to work together to get a certain outcome, they can just do that. They wouldn't need the plurality vote. For example, the leaders over the parties could meet, decide an outcome, whip their MPs and don't care about a few people not voting with their decision. Obviously, the problem is that the parties aren't willing to compromise in such a controlled setting, they're not going to allow a vote (for which they don't really know the outcome) and then magically decide to respect that.
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
Let's say the government proposes this and this vote is carried out. Then a majority of MPs are getting something they don't want (otherwise that outcome could be passed as a normal vote by simple majority). In particular, the government may get an outcome it doesn't want, the majority of parliament doesn't want but would have to carry it out (well, that would be part of the earlier proposition of this system, otherwise the vote would be meaningless). This isn't ideal.
Aside from that, those options aren't a one-time thing. These actions have consequences and once you choose an option, you have to follow through:
For example, if you accept the current deal, many laws will have to
be passed (which requires a majority, again).If they decide to keep on negotiating the impasse isn't broken, they
will just have one more option if a new deal is negotiated, but
there may be no majority for that one either.Leaving without a deal is like opening Pandora's box, it's not
something that solves all existing problems, instead many more
choices (e.g. what will be the policy on allowing EU citizens coming
to the UK? How are goods coming in checked?) will have to be made
and that requires a majority in parliament to do so.A second referendum also doesn't help if there is no majority in
favour of it. In the proposed plurality vote, do MPs commit to
respecting the outcome? Even if that means disrespecting the current
referendum outcome? If the outcome is to leave without a deal, what
instructions does that give the parliament / government with regards
to the previous point?
All in all, it's not that easy. And if MPs do decide they want to work together to get a certain outcome, they can just do that. They wouldn't need the plurality vote. For example, the leaders over the parties could meet, decide an outcome, whip their MPs and don't care about a few people not voting with their decision. Obviously, the problem is that the parties aren't willing to compromise in such a controlled setting, they're not going to allow a vote (for which they don't really know the outcome) and then magically decide to respect that.
Let's say the government proposes this and this vote is carried out. Then a majority of MPs are getting something they don't want (otherwise that outcome could be passed as a normal vote by simple majority). In particular, the government may get an outcome it doesn't want, the majority of parliament doesn't want but would have to carry it out (well, that would be part of the earlier proposition of this system, otherwise the vote would be meaningless). This isn't ideal.
Aside from that, those options aren't a one-time thing. These actions have consequences and once you choose an option, you have to follow through:
For example, if you accept the current deal, many laws will have to
be passed (which requires a majority, again).If they decide to keep on negotiating the impasse isn't broken, they
will just have one more option if a new deal is negotiated, but
there may be no majority for that one either.Leaving without a deal is like opening Pandora's box, it's not
something that solves all existing problems, instead many more
choices (e.g. what will be the policy on allowing EU citizens coming
to the UK? How are goods coming in checked?) will have to be made
and that requires a majority in parliament to do so.A second referendum also doesn't help if there is no majority in
favour of it. In the proposed plurality vote, do MPs commit to
respecting the outcome? Even if that means disrespecting the current
referendum outcome? If the outcome is to leave without a deal, what
instructions does that give the parliament / government with regards
to the previous point?
All in all, it's not that easy. And if MPs do decide they want to work together to get a certain outcome, they can just do that. They wouldn't need the plurality vote. For example, the leaders over the parties could meet, decide an outcome, whip their MPs and don't care about a few people not voting with their decision. Obviously, the problem is that the parties aren't willing to compromise in such a controlled setting, they're not going to allow a vote (for which they don't really know the outcome) and then magically decide to respect that.
answered 2 hours ago
JJJJJJ
4,82622144
4,82622144
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
I see what you are saying; however, the more possible options there are available in a given situation, the smaller the chance will be of finding a majority agreement on any particular one (because the vote is being split more and more). In that case, to me, a system that relies on a majority vote seems a little inappropriate. Is there anything in UK Parliament procedure that would prevent such a plurality vote being held, in principle?
– Time4Tea
2 hours ago
1
1
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea I am not that familiar with the system, but I think they could agree to hold the vote and agree* to uphold the outcome. The problem is, parliamentarians won't be likely to do that. *I'm not sure to what extent they can agree, I think there's no problem with just agreeing, but it's probably difficult to make that agreement binding by law (though that might be a different question).
– JJJ
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
"laws will have to be passed": the bill that authorized Article 50 also authorised ministers to make whatever changes to post-EU law they require through the statutory instrument mechanism. Yes, that's a terrible amount of power to transfer away from Parliament.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
@Time4Tea normally there's no problem with not having a majority to do anything; the status quo prevails and nothing changes. Belgium managed without a government at all for about 500 days a few years ago. However, there was a majority for Article 50 two years ago. That gets us here. Like parking your car on a railway crossing, doing nothing does not mean status quo, it means getting hit by a train.
– pjc50
1 hour ago
1
1
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
@alephzero why not, if a majority of representatives are willing to support such a one-off, exceptional deviation? That would seem fairly democratic to me.
– Time4Tea
45 mins ago
|
show 2 more comments
There is no reason why these options could not be put to Parliament in series.
The House of Commons works by having the government propose motions that can be passed or rejected. Motions are allocated time to be debated and other MPs can propose amendments. Finally a series of votes on the amendments and finally on the motion (amended or otherwise) are held.
The problem is that on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on. And the government is mostly controlled by the Prime Minister, and Mrs May only wants one outcome: her deal is accepted.
As such it's extremely difficult to get votes on the other options. The best hope is for amendments to be accepted supporting those options, but even then the Speaker of the House gets to decide which amendments will be put to the vote so it's not always automatically possible to have them attached to a government motion.
So it's entirely possible, just very unlikely due to Theresa May.
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
add a comment |
There is no reason why these options could not be put to Parliament in series.
The House of Commons works by having the government propose motions that can be passed or rejected. Motions are allocated time to be debated and other MPs can propose amendments. Finally a series of votes on the amendments and finally on the motion (amended or otherwise) are held.
The problem is that on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on. And the government is mostly controlled by the Prime Minister, and Mrs May only wants one outcome: her deal is accepted.
As such it's extremely difficult to get votes on the other options. The best hope is for amendments to be accepted supporting those options, but even then the Speaker of the House gets to decide which amendments will be put to the vote so it's not always automatically possible to have them attached to a government motion.
So it's entirely possible, just very unlikely due to Theresa May.
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
add a comment |
There is no reason why these options could not be put to Parliament in series.
The House of Commons works by having the government propose motions that can be passed or rejected. Motions are allocated time to be debated and other MPs can propose amendments. Finally a series of votes on the amendments and finally on the motion (amended or otherwise) are held.
The problem is that on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on. And the government is mostly controlled by the Prime Minister, and Mrs May only wants one outcome: her deal is accepted.
As such it's extremely difficult to get votes on the other options. The best hope is for amendments to be accepted supporting those options, but even then the Speaker of the House gets to decide which amendments will be put to the vote so it's not always automatically possible to have them attached to a government motion.
So it's entirely possible, just very unlikely due to Theresa May.
There is no reason why these options could not be put to Parliament in series.
The House of Commons works by having the government propose motions that can be passed or rejected. Motions are allocated time to be debated and other MPs can propose amendments. Finally a series of votes on the amendments and finally on the motion (amended or otherwise) are held.
The problem is that on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on. And the government is mostly controlled by the Prime Minister, and Mrs May only wants one outcome: her deal is accepted.
As such it's extremely difficult to get votes on the other options. The best hope is for amendments to be accepted supporting those options, but even then the Speaker of the House gets to decide which amendments will be put to the vote so it's not always automatically possible to have them attached to a government motion.
So it's entirely possible, just very unlikely due to Theresa May.
edited 58 mins ago
Steve Melnikoff
4,19211836
4,19211836
answered 1 hour ago
useruser
8,82821936
8,82821936
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
add a comment |
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
3
3
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
"on all but one day a year only the government gets to decide which motions are going to be voted on": that's not true; it's 20 days per session.
– Steve Melnikoff
59 mins ago
add a comment |
So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
As of now, the British government is no longer in deadlock. There has already been a vote on all of the listed options except for option #5 and only the second option (asking for an extension) managed to receive more than 50% of the votes. Thus Theresa May asked for a three month delay on March 20th, currently pending approval by the European Council. Holding a plurality vote would be redundant as no other option had more than 50% of the MPs support.
In three months time (presuming the EU will grant the UK an extension), Parliament will again have to choose between the options, but this time asking for an extension would no longer be possible.
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
add a comment |
So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
As of now, the British government is no longer in deadlock. There has already been a vote on all of the listed options except for option #5 and only the second option (asking for an extension) managed to receive more than 50% of the votes. Thus Theresa May asked for a three month delay on March 20th, currently pending approval by the European Council. Holding a plurality vote would be redundant as no other option had more than 50% of the MPs support.
In three months time (presuming the EU will grant the UK an extension), Parliament will again have to choose between the options, but this time asking for an extension would no longer be possible.
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
add a comment |
So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
As of now, the British government is no longer in deadlock. There has already been a vote on all of the listed options except for option #5 and only the second option (asking for an extension) managed to receive more than 50% of the votes. Thus Theresa May asked for a three month delay on March 20th, currently pending approval by the European Council. Holding a plurality vote would be redundant as no other option had more than 50% of the MPs support.
In three months time (presuming the EU will grant the UK an extension), Parliament will again have to choose between the options, but this time asking for an extension would no longer be possible.
So, why not break the deadlock by plurality?
As of now, the British government is no longer in deadlock. There has already been a vote on all of the listed options except for option #5 and only the second option (asking for an extension) managed to receive more than 50% of the votes. Thus Theresa May asked for a three month delay on March 20th, currently pending approval by the European Council. Holding a plurality vote would be redundant as no other option had more than 50% of the MPs support.
In three months time (presuming the EU will grant the UK an extension), Parliament will again have to choose between the options, but this time asking for an extension would no longer be possible.
edited 37 mins ago
answered 46 mins ago
JonathanReezJonathanReez
14k1580158
14k1580158
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
add a comment |
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
What you say is true. However, option 2 is only a temporary solution and will run out of steam eventually (a decision will have to be made). At that point, we will be back in this situation, with option 2 no longer on the list.
– Time4Tea
42 mins ago
1
1
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
Isn't the extension just pushing the problem forward? It's not like extending solves the issues at hand, if anything it adds problems when it conflicts with the EU elections. Indeed, the UK will still need to make a plan for what they will do during that extension..
– JJJ
42 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@JJJ it is pushing the problem forward, however its technically a way out of the deadlock. In three months time the Parliament will have to choose between the remaining 4 options.
– JonathanReez
39 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
@Time4Tea it is temporary, but it is a solution. It was one of the options on the table and it was picked by Parliament.
– JonathanReez
38 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
The EU replied that it won't approve an extension without a deal being approved in Westminster: bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47636011 So there won't be any no-deal extensions, in all likelihood.
– Fizz
29 mins ago
add a comment |
Time4Tea is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Time4Tea is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Time4Tea is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Time4Tea is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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5. Unilateral revocation of article 50.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@pjc50 yes, it's true that is another possible option to add to the list. I will edit my question.
– Time4Tea
1 hour ago
There is no deal offered by the EU. Instead it was a deal agreed between the EU and the UK (that agree fully with all the details). Option 2 makes no sense, precisely because of this.
– John B
10 mins ago