What do hard-Brexiteers want with respect to the Irish border? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhy is it impossible to leave the Single Market without a hard Irish border?How could the UK resolve the Irish border conundrum without staying in the Single Market?Did Michel Barnier and Leo Varadkar say that “no deal”, there won't be a hard border between the Irelands?What treaties or (written) agreements would a hard border in Ireland breach, post-Brexit?Is there a clear statement from the DUP on their position on the post-Brexit border with Ireland?Does the UK-EU Joint Report essentially remove any leverage the UK has in further negotiations?Why is it impossible to leave the Single Market without a hard Irish border?Could the UK “take Ireland hostage?”Can the UK deal selectively with Ireland post-Brexit without falling afoul of WTO rules?How do Brexiteers interpret Trump's insistence on a wall?What does it mean to “leave the backstop”?A vote on the Brexit backstopThe backstop in the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) BillWhy does the EU insist on the backstop when it is clear in a no deal scenario they still intend to keep an open border?
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What do hard-Brexiteers want with respect to the Irish border?
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhy is it impossible to leave the Single Market without a hard Irish border?How could the UK resolve the Irish border conundrum without staying in the Single Market?Did Michel Barnier and Leo Varadkar say that “no deal”, there won't be a hard border between the Irelands?What treaties or (written) agreements would a hard border in Ireland breach, post-Brexit?Is there a clear statement from the DUP on their position on the post-Brexit border with Ireland?Does the UK-EU Joint Report essentially remove any leverage the UK has in further negotiations?Why is it impossible to leave the Single Market without a hard Irish border?Could the UK “take Ireland hostage?”Can the UK deal selectively with Ireland post-Brexit without falling afoul of WTO rules?How do Brexiteers interpret Trump's insistence on a wall?What does it mean to “leave the backstop”?A vote on the Brexit backstopThe backstop in the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) BillWhy does the EU insist on the backstop when it is clear in a no deal scenario they still intend to keep an open border?
Hard-Brexiteers would like the UK to have a "clean break" with the EU, and in particular they don't want any part of the UK to stay even temporarily in the customs union (the so-called backstop).
This "clean break" would normally require a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but a hard border would breach the Good Friday Agreement. It seems that the options "the UK leaves the customs union" and "the Good Friday Agreement is upheld" are mutually exclusive.
As far as I'm aware, the only idea that some hard-Brexiteers have proposed to solve this contradiction is a soft border using "seamless technology". Even assuming that such a technological option is feasible for the trade of goods, wouldn't that leave a backdoor wide open for illegal immigration from the EU to the UK? If yes, are hard-Brexiteers ok with that? Alternatively, are there any hard-Brexiteers who support a hard border?
To summarize, what do hard-Brexiteers see as the ideal outcome for the Irish border in the long term?
united-kingdom brexit northern-ireland republic-of-ireland good-friday-agreement
|
show 6 more comments
Hard-Brexiteers would like the UK to have a "clean break" with the EU, and in particular they don't want any part of the UK to stay even temporarily in the customs union (the so-called backstop).
This "clean break" would normally require a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but a hard border would breach the Good Friday Agreement. It seems that the options "the UK leaves the customs union" and "the Good Friday Agreement is upheld" are mutually exclusive.
As far as I'm aware, the only idea that some hard-Brexiteers have proposed to solve this contradiction is a soft border using "seamless technology". Even assuming that such a technological option is feasible for the trade of goods, wouldn't that leave a backdoor wide open for illegal immigration from the EU to the UK? If yes, are hard-Brexiteers ok with that? Alternatively, are there any hard-Brexiteers who support a hard border?
To summarize, what do hard-Brexiteers see as the ideal outcome for the Irish border in the long term?
united-kingdom brexit northern-ireland republic-of-ireland good-friday-agreement
I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
13
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
7
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
1
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
2
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Hard-Brexiteers would like the UK to have a "clean break" with the EU, and in particular they don't want any part of the UK to stay even temporarily in the customs union (the so-called backstop).
This "clean break" would normally require a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but a hard border would breach the Good Friday Agreement. It seems that the options "the UK leaves the customs union" and "the Good Friday Agreement is upheld" are mutually exclusive.
As far as I'm aware, the only idea that some hard-Brexiteers have proposed to solve this contradiction is a soft border using "seamless technology". Even assuming that such a technological option is feasible for the trade of goods, wouldn't that leave a backdoor wide open for illegal immigration from the EU to the UK? If yes, are hard-Brexiteers ok with that? Alternatively, are there any hard-Brexiteers who support a hard border?
To summarize, what do hard-Brexiteers see as the ideal outcome for the Irish border in the long term?
united-kingdom brexit northern-ireland republic-of-ireland good-friday-agreement
Hard-Brexiteers would like the UK to have a "clean break" with the EU, and in particular they don't want any part of the UK to stay even temporarily in the customs union (the so-called backstop).
This "clean break" would normally require a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, but a hard border would breach the Good Friday Agreement. It seems that the options "the UK leaves the customs union" and "the Good Friday Agreement is upheld" are mutually exclusive.
As far as I'm aware, the only idea that some hard-Brexiteers have proposed to solve this contradiction is a soft border using "seamless technology". Even assuming that such a technological option is feasible for the trade of goods, wouldn't that leave a backdoor wide open for illegal immigration from the EU to the UK? If yes, are hard-Brexiteers ok with that? Alternatively, are there any hard-Brexiteers who support a hard border?
To summarize, what do hard-Brexiteers see as the ideal outcome for the Irish border in the long term?
united-kingdom brexit northern-ireland republic-of-ireland good-friday-agreement
united-kingdom brexit northern-ireland republic-of-ireland good-friday-agreement
asked 13 hours ago
ErwanErwan
2,725622
2,725622
I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
13
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
7
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
1
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
2
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
13
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
7
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
1
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
2
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago
I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
13
13
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
7
7
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
1
1
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
2
2
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
They tend to think it's somebody else's problem (Ireland's and/or the DUP's). Unless you are part of the DUP of course. See how Rees-Mogg has been punting the problem along the lines of: I agree with whatever the DUP agrees (or at least doesn't oppose) on Northern Ireland. And at the same time he says that in the case of no-deal Ireland would not dare to impose a hard border. Which is true to some extent.
The DUP has given a number of somewhat contradictory statements on this, over time. From the somewhat famous denial that a hard border ever existed to the more recent position(s) that they would prioritize staying the EU over splitting Northern Ireland from the UK.
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm a Remainer, but have been accused of being a Hard Brexiter on some stances in this debate, so I'll take a stab. The WTO, the Repubic of Ireland, and the EU have all recently made declarations and supporting statements that they have no intention of putting up border checks on any border between the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They will instead impose checks at warehouses and other centers of of commerce. The UK is adamant that they will not impose any border check on any borders between ROI and NI (already been there and done that) and currently, through the HMRC, conduct such checks (for immigration and contraband) in Northern Ireland. So it seems that this issue is, perhap ironically, sorting itself out whether there is a 'hard' Brexit or not. The means by which such controls can be done are long established by many nations around the world (a simple Google search with near infinite examples, though if enough people insist, I'll post all sorts of links to customs seizures and immigration raids away from any borders). It will not be perfect. Nobody has a perfect system that I'm aware of. But it will suffice to control immigration and movement of goods to some extent and, most importantly, prevent any return of the Troubles.
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
The brexiteers don't really want anything regarding the Irish border. It's just a problem preventing them getting the hard brexit that they want, and since they don't have a real solution for it they just want to pretend it's not really a problem.
That's all it is, an annoying roadblock for them.
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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They tend to think it's somebody else's problem (Ireland's and/or the DUP's). Unless you are part of the DUP of course. See how Rees-Mogg has been punting the problem along the lines of: I agree with whatever the DUP agrees (or at least doesn't oppose) on Northern Ireland. And at the same time he says that in the case of no-deal Ireland would not dare to impose a hard border. Which is true to some extent.
The DUP has given a number of somewhat contradictory statements on this, over time. From the somewhat famous denial that a hard border ever existed to the more recent position(s) that they would prioritize staying the EU over splitting Northern Ireland from the UK.
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
add a comment |
They tend to think it's somebody else's problem (Ireland's and/or the DUP's). Unless you are part of the DUP of course. See how Rees-Mogg has been punting the problem along the lines of: I agree with whatever the DUP agrees (or at least doesn't oppose) on Northern Ireland. And at the same time he says that in the case of no-deal Ireland would not dare to impose a hard border. Which is true to some extent.
The DUP has given a number of somewhat contradictory statements on this, over time. From the somewhat famous denial that a hard border ever existed to the more recent position(s) that they would prioritize staying the EU over splitting Northern Ireland from the UK.
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
add a comment |
They tend to think it's somebody else's problem (Ireland's and/or the DUP's). Unless you are part of the DUP of course. See how Rees-Mogg has been punting the problem along the lines of: I agree with whatever the DUP agrees (or at least doesn't oppose) on Northern Ireland. And at the same time he says that in the case of no-deal Ireland would not dare to impose a hard border. Which is true to some extent.
The DUP has given a number of somewhat contradictory statements on this, over time. From the somewhat famous denial that a hard border ever existed to the more recent position(s) that they would prioritize staying the EU over splitting Northern Ireland from the UK.
They tend to think it's somebody else's problem (Ireland's and/or the DUP's). Unless you are part of the DUP of course. See how Rees-Mogg has been punting the problem along the lines of: I agree with whatever the DUP agrees (or at least doesn't oppose) on Northern Ireland. And at the same time he says that in the case of no-deal Ireland would not dare to impose a hard border. Which is true to some extent.
The DUP has given a number of somewhat contradictory statements on this, over time. From the somewhat famous denial that a hard border ever existed to the more recent position(s) that they would prioritize staying the EU over splitting Northern Ireland from the UK.
edited 10 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
FizzFizz
14.3k23491
14.3k23491
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
add a comment |
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
The DUP would in theory be fine with a hard border with Ireland. It shows they have "won".
– Caleth
11 hours ago
2
2
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
@Caleth: Source? For some reason, I get very very conflicting impressions...
– Denis de Bernardy
6 hours ago
2
2
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
The DUP would not be fine with that. Some of them would be OK with it ideologically, they know it would be a massively unpopular move for which they would get the blame.
– DJClayworth
5 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm a Remainer, but have been accused of being a Hard Brexiter on some stances in this debate, so I'll take a stab. The WTO, the Repubic of Ireland, and the EU have all recently made declarations and supporting statements that they have no intention of putting up border checks on any border between the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They will instead impose checks at warehouses and other centers of of commerce. The UK is adamant that they will not impose any border check on any borders between ROI and NI (already been there and done that) and currently, through the HMRC, conduct such checks (for immigration and contraband) in Northern Ireland. So it seems that this issue is, perhap ironically, sorting itself out whether there is a 'hard' Brexit or not. The means by which such controls can be done are long established by many nations around the world (a simple Google search with near infinite examples, though if enough people insist, I'll post all sorts of links to customs seizures and immigration raids away from any borders). It will not be perfect. Nobody has a perfect system that I'm aware of. But it will suffice to control immigration and movement of goods to some extent and, most importantly, prevent any return of the Troubles.
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
I'm a Remainer, but have been accused of being a Hard Brexiter on some stances in this debate, so I'll take a stab. The WTO, the Repubic of Ireland, and the EU have all recently made declarations and supporting statements that they have no intention of putting up border checks on any border between the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They will instead impose checks at warehouses and other centers of of commerce. The UK is adamant that they will not impose any border check on any borders between ROI and NI (already been there and done that) and currently, through the HMRC, conduct such checks (for immigration and contraband) in Northern Ireland. So it seems that this issue is, perhap ironically, sorting itself out whether there is a 'hard' Brexit or not. The means by which such controls can be done are long established by many nations around the world (a simple Google search with near infinite examples, though if enough people insist, I'll post all sorts of links to customs seizures and immigration raids away from any borders). It will not be perfect. Nobody has a perfect system that I'm aware of. But it will suffice to control immigration and movement of goods to some extent and, most importantly, prevent any return of the Troubles.
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
I'm a Remainer, but have been accused of being a Hard Brexiter on some stances in this debate, so I'll take a stab. The WTO, the Repubic of Ireland, and the EU have all recently made declarations and supporting statements that they have no intention of putting up border checks on any border between the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They will instead impose checks at warehouses and other centers of of commerce. The UK is adamant that they will not impose any border check on any borders between ROI and NI (already been there and done that) and currently, through the HMRC, conduct such checks (for immigration and contraband) in Northern Ireland. So it seems that this issue is, perhap ironically, sorting itself out whether there is a 'hard' Brexit or not. The means by which such controls can be done are long established by many nations around the world (a simple Google search with near infinite examples, though if enough people insist, I'll post all sorts of links to customs seizures and immigration raids away from any borders). It will not be perfect. Nobody has a perfect system that I'm aware of. But it will suffice to control immigration and movement of goods to some extent and, most importantly, prevent any return of the Troubles.
I'm a Remainer, but have been accused of being a Hard Brexiter on some stances in this debate, so I'll take a stab. The WTO, the Repubic of Ireland, and the EU have all recently made declarations and supporting statements that they have no intention of putting up border checks on any border between the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They will instead impose checks at warehouses and other centers of of commerce. The UK is adamant that they will not impose any border check on any borders between ROI and NI (already been there and done that) and currently, through the HMRC, conduct such checks (for immigration and contraband) in Northern Ireland. So it seems that this issue is, perhap ironically, sorting itself out whether there is a 'hard' Brexit or not. The means by which such controls can be done are long established by many nations around the world (a simple Google search with near infinite examples, though if enough people insist, I'll post all sorts of links to customs seizures and immigration raids away from any borders). It will not be perfect. Nobody has a perfect system that I'm aware of. But it will suffice to control immigration and movement of goods to some extent and, most importantly, prevent any return of the Troubles.
answered 12 hours ago
ouflakouflak
1,613614
1,613614
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
Similar to the way Canada and US used to be.
– Frank Cedeno
10 hours ago
5
5
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
@FrankCedeno, Still is in many many places. The US/CAN border is huge. It's simply not feasible to have manned controlled checks at every crossing. Sure they do it at all of the major thoroughfares, but otherwise they use a system of random checks at various locations for both smuggled goods and immigration checks, occasionally in some form of cooperation and based on tips. It's nothing new at all and is in place around the world to varying degrees. And this seems to be how most Brexiters feel this can be dealt with for the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The EU, WTO, and ROI agree.
– ouflak
8 hours ago
3
3
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
"a simple Google search with near infinite examples" If it is so easy to find these examples, then include them in your answer.
– thelem
8 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
@thelem, Is it okay if I just post the Google search results on "U.S. Customs seizures", "U.S. immigration raids" and likewise for the UK (HMRC), and perhaps Canada? I only ask because there are lot of results, I'm a bit retentive and it takes time to put the most interesting and relevant cases together, especially as I'm easily distracted by the more unusual finds. You can do these searches yourself. Maybe throw in China (big border with Russia), Russia (several long borders with several countries) and others you can think of. I can do it though if you don't have the energy. Gimme a bit.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
2
2
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
@ErikP. I haven't heard anybody, Remainer or Brexiter, claim it would be 'no big deal'. But I have heard the WTO, EU and ROI say that they will use other means than ROI/NI checks at a border. Anyway, I've found a couple of interesting examples, one that supports your statement about US/Canada cooperation.
– ouflak
7 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
The brexiteers don't really want anything regarding the Irish border. It's just a problem preventing them getting the hard brexit that they want, and since they don't have a real solution for it they just want to pretend it's not really a problem.
That's all it is, an annoying roadblock for them.
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The brexiteers don't really want anything regarding the Irish border. It's just a problem preventing them getting the hard brexit that they want, and since they don't have a real solution for it they just want to pretend it's not really a problem.
That's all it is, an annoying roadblock for them.
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
add a comment |
The brexiteers don't really want anything regarding the Irish border. It's just a problem preventing them getting the hard brexit that they want, and since they don't have a real solution for it they just want to pretend it's not really a problem.
That's all it is, an annoying roadblock for them.
The brexiteers don't really want anything regarding the Irish border. It's just a problem preventing them getting the hard brexit that they want, and since they don't have a real solution for it they just want to pretend it's not really a problem.
That's all it is, an annoying roadblock for them.
answered 10 hours ago
useruser
10.7k32542
10.7k32542
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
Ireland is just a part of the UK isn't it! What ho, jolly good show, wahf-wahf-wahf.
– billpg
7 hours ago
2
2
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
Disagree on this. DUP are brexiters and have strong opinions on the matter. Ironically probably would rather a soft border
– Orangesandlemons
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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I don't know how popular this view is but some people I know think that the present situation would be advantageous if a hard border came to pass and then caused ireland to also leave the EU to have an accord about the border.
– Magisch
12 hours ago
13
@Magisch apparently these people don't know that Ireland is pretty happy to stay in the EU and doesnt have the slightest intention to leave it.
– Erwan
11 hours ago
7
Question presumes that Brexiters have actually given a moments thought about the border across Ireland. (Other than "Thinking about Ireland is boring. I'll think about fighting wars I was never in instead.")
– billpg
7 hours ago
1
@DiegoSánchez: that's a point that I don't understand, or more precisely I don't understand why hard Brexiteers are not concerned about it: Ireland will keep welcoming migrants from other EU countries, and these people would be able to cross the border, right? How is that compatible with limiting EU immigration, which is one of the main points of a hard Brexit? Ireland might even decide later to join the Schengen area, making it possible for anyone in the EU to reach the British Isles.
– Erwan
7 hours ago
2
@Erwan as in most discussions of immigration, "crossing the border" and "working and achieving permanent residence" are two completely different things. Someone from the non-Irish EU crossing the Irish border would still be subject to the UK Home Office "hostile environment" and rules on work and permanent residence.
– pjc50
6 hours ago