Meaning of “Not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon”Pesach/PassoverSefirat Haomer leading to Shavuot Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Best Answer Contest winners! Second quarter of 5779 To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…Conversion: If G-d really wanted me to be a Jew (and observe mitzvot), why was I not born into a Jewish familyIs there a source where Emuna and Bitachon are described as separate ideas?Clarifications on FaithHow do we logically know that there are not 2 Gods (according to the Chovos HaLevavos)?Why do Jews believe the entire Torah, as opposed to parts or most, was given by God to Moses?Meaning of “emunah shlaima”?If voting doesn't do anything, should one vote?Explanation of Alter Rebbe's proof of G-d?How does Hashem relate to the bitachon (faith) of a wicked person?How does one know his balance between Hishtadlus and Bitachon?

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Meaning of “Not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon”



Pesach/Passover
Sefirat Haomer leading to Shavuot
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)
Best Answer Contest winners! Second quarter of 5779
To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…Conversion: If G-d really wanted me to be a Jew (and observe mitzvot), why was I not born into a Jewish familyIs there a source where Emuna and Bitachon are described as separate ideas?Clarifications on FaithHow do we logically know that there are not 2 Gods (according to the Chovos HaLevavos)?Why do Jews believe the entire Torah, as opposed to parts or most, was given by God to Moses?Meaning of “emunah shlaima”?If voting doesn't do anything, should one vote?Explanation of Alter Rebbe's proof of G-d?How does Hashem relate to the bitachon (faith) of a wicked person?How does one know his balance between Hishtadlus and Bitachon?










3















(Hi newbie here :) I hope I'm writing this post correctly.)



What does it mean when people say "I'm not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon"?

I've seen and heard countless times when people say that really whatever is supposed to happen will happen just "I'm not holding on that level" therefore they do more hishtadlus.



How does this make sense? Either you believe or you don't.



If you believe then why do you need more hishtadlus if you don't believe aren't you considered a heretic?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

    – michael
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    Not sure I've ever heard that said

    – Double AA
    5 hours ago











  • @michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

    – Chaim
    5 hours ago
















3















(Hi newbie here :) I hope I'm writing this post correctly.)



What does it mean when people say "I'm not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon"?

I've seen and heard countless times when people say that really whatever is supposed to happen will happen just "I'm not holding on that level" therefore they do more hishtadlus.



How does this make sense? Either you believe or you don't.



If you believe then why do you need more hishtadlus if you don't believe aren't you considered a heretic?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

    – michael
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    Not sure I've ever heard that said

    – Double AA
    5 hours ago











  • @michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

    – Chaim
    5 hours ago














3












3








3








(Hi newbie here :) I hope I'm writing this post correctly.)



What does it mean when people say "I'm not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon"?

I've seen and heard countless times when people say that really whatever is supposed to happen will happen just "I'm not holding on that level" therefore they do more hishtadlus.



How does this make sense? Either you believe or you don't.



If you believe then why do you need more hishtadlus if you don't believe aren't you considered a heretic?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












(Hi newbie here :) I hope I'm writing this post correctly.)



What does it mean when people say "I'm not holding on that level of emuna/bitachon"?

I've seen and heard countless times when people say that really whatever is supposed to happen will happen just "I'm not holding on that level" therefore they do more hishtadlus.



How does this make sense? Either you believe or you don't.



If you believe then why do you need more hishtadlus if you don't believe aren't you considered a heretic?







hashkafah-philosophy faith-bitachon-emunah






share|improve this question









New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









Al Berko

6,6882529




6,6882529






New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 5 hours ago









ChaimChaim

162




162




New contributor




Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Chaim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

    – michael
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    Not sure I've ever heard that said

    – Double AA
    5 hours ago











  • @michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

    – Chaim
    5 hours ago


















  • how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

    – michael
    5 hours ago






  • 1





    Not sure I've ever heard that said

    – Double AA
    5 hours ago











  • @michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

    – Chaim
    5 hours ago

















how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

– michael
5 hours ago





how do you know what is the proper amount of hishtadlus?

– michael
5 hours ago




1




1





Not sure I've ever heard that said

– Double AA
5 hours ago





Not sure I've ever heard that said

– Double AA
5 hours ago













@michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

– Chaim
5 hours ago






@michael let's take an easy example. Winning a raffle. One ticket is enough hishtadlus. But ask someone if they would rather have 9 tickets in a 10:1 raffle.

– Chaim
5 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2














Chaim, welcome to Mi Yodeya.



I am not overly familiar with the changing nuances of "yeshivish", so I can't say that this particular phrase is something that I have heard verbatim. But, in addressing the concept implied by your question, you may want to gain some clarity between two similar terms - bitachon and emunah.



There are numerous articles on this topic, but I think this summary from "The Shmuz" is good:




The Rambam defines emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and
continues to run all of Creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no
activity can occur without HASHEM.



Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines
bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to
watch over and protect me, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and
place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not
in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results.
I rely on HASHEM to care for me.



Emunah is a state of understanding; bitachon is a state of trust.
Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the
planet; bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in every situation.



A person can have emunah and not bitachon




So, to clarify the expression that you've probably heard, you are correct in that either you have emunah or not. This is kind of an absolute degree of understanding and appreciation. Either you believe that God is responsible for everything that happens or not. You can't just believe that God is responsible for some things and not for others. The concept of emunah is that God is involved in everything. If you don't believe that, you have a lack of emunah. I think a heretic involved specific stronger action then just a lack of emunah. I.e. this doesn't deny that there is a God, and it doesn't mean that you convince others of the idea. It's that you think that some things, perhaps, happen by God, but not other things. A heretic denies that God is involved in anything at all.



Now bitachon - yes, there are definitely levels to this. We see this every day in numerous people. Many people believe that if they invest in Amazon stocks today, that almost guarantees that they will make a profit in a year. What happens when that fails? They mope, they suffer distress, etc. They didn't trust that the ultimate outcome is up to God. They lacked bitachon. Or, opposite, I'm sure you've seen shidduchim break off because someone found a minor flaw in the other and thought that was major to not make the marriage work. If they had a greater level of bitachon, and trusted that God decides the outcome, they might have continued the shidduch.



In summary, I think people really mean to say "My level of bitachon is not great; I need to work on that." It is, possible that they were referring to "emunah", but, as I explained, above, it seems that emunah doesn't have degrees or partiality.






share|improve this answer























  • Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago


















0














I'll give you an example: It is very clearly seen here in Jerusalem's HMOs when the residents of all kinds bring their kids to vaccinate. First, come the secular, then Kipah Sruga, then the Litvakes, then the Chassidishers and the last (but not least) the Yerushalmi. And some never come.



And we can rate them clearly according to their level of Bitachon in Hashem. So each previous group can say "I don't have that level of Bitachon of the next group ... to put my kids in danger".






share|improve this answer























  • Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2














Chaim, welcome to Mi Yodeya.



I am not overly familiar with the changing nuances of "yeshivish", so I can't say that this particular phrase is something that I have heard verbatim. But, in addressing the concept implied by your question, you may want to gain some clarity between two similar terms - bitachon and emunah.



There are numerous articles on this topic, but I think this summary from "The Shmuz" is good:




The Rambam defines emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and
continues to run all of Creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no
activity can occur without HASHEM.



Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines
bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to
watch over and protect me, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and
place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not
in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results.
I rely on HASHEM to care for me.



Emunah is a state of understanding; bitachon is a state of trust.
Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the
planet; bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in every situation.



A person can have emunah and not bitachon




So, to clarify the expression that you've probably heard, you are correct in that either you have emunah or not. This is kind of an absolute degree of understanding and appreciation. Either you believe that God is responsible for everything that happens or not. You can't just believe that God is responsible for some things and not for others. The concept of emunah is that God is involved in everything. If you don't believe that, you have a lack of emunah. I think a heretic involved specific stronger action then just a lack of emunah. I.e. this doesn't deny that there is a God, and it doesn't mean that you convince others of the idea. It's that you think that some things, perhaps, happen by God, but not other things. A heretic denies that God is involved in anything at all.



Now bitachon - yes, there are definitely levels to this. We see this every day in numerous people. Many people believe that if they invest in Amazon stocks today, that almost guarantees that they will make a profit in a year. What happens when that fails? They mope, they suffer distress, etc. They didn't trust that the ultimate outcome is up to God. They lacked bitachon. Or, opposite, I'm sure you've seen shidduchim break off because someone found a minor flaw in the other and thought that was major to not make the marriage work. If they had a greater level of bitachon, and trusted that God decides the outcome, they might have continued the shidduch.



In summary, I think people really mean to say "My level of bitachon is not great; I need to work on that." It is, possible that they were referring to "emunah", but, as I explained, above, it seems that emunah doesn't have degrees or partiality.






share|improve this answer























  • Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago















2














Chaim, welcome to Mi Yodeya.



I am not overly familiar with the changing nuances of "yeshivish", so I can't say that this particular phrase is something that I have heard verbatim. But, in addressing the concept implied by your question, you may want to gain some clarity between two similar terms - bitachon and emunah.



There are numerous articles on this topic, but I think this summary from "The Shmuz" is good:




The Rambam defines emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and
continues to run all of Creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no
activity can occur without HASHEM.



Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines
bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to
watch over and protect me, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and
place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not
in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results.
I rely on HASHEM to care for me.



Emunah is a state of understanding; bitachon is a state of trust.
Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the
planet; bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in every situation.



A person can have emunah and not bitachon




So, to clarify the expression that you've probably heard, you are correct in that either you have emunah or not. This is kind of an absolute degree of understanding and appreciation. Either you believe that God is responsible for everything that happens or not. You can't just believe that God is responsible for some things and not for others. The concept of emunah is that God is involved in everything. If you don't believe that, you have a lack of emunah. I think a heretic involved specific stronger action then just a lack of emunah. I.e. this doesn't deny that there is a God, and it doesn't mean that you convince others of the idea. It's that you think that some things, perhaps, happen by God, but not other things. A heretic denies that God is involved in anything at all.



Now bitachon - yes, there are definitely levels to this. We see this every day in numerous people. Many people believe that if they invest in Amazon stocks today, that almost guarantees that they will make a profit in a year. What happens when that fails? They mope, they suffer distress, etc. They didn't trust that the ultimate outcome is up to God. They lacked bitachon. Or, opposite, I'm sure you've seen shidduchim break off because someone found a minor flaw in the other and thought that was major to not make the marriage work. If they had a greater level of bitachon, and trusted that God decides the outcome, they might have continued the shidduch.



In summary, I think people really mean to say "My level of bitachon is not great; I need to work on that." It is, possible that they were referring to "emunah", but, as I explained, above, it seems that emunah doesn't have degrees or partiality.






share|improve this answer























  • Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago













2












2








2







Chaim, welcome to Mi Yodeya.



I am not overly familiar with the changing nuances of "yeshivish", so I can't say that this particular phrase is something that I have heard verbatim. But, in addressing the concept implied by your question, you may want to gain some clarity between two similar terms - bitachon and emunah.



There are numerous articles on this topic, but I think this summary from "The Shmuz" is good:




The Rambam defines emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and
continues to run all of Creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no
activity can occur without HASHEM.



Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines
bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to
watch over and protect me, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and
place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not
in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results.
I rely on HASHEM to care for me.



Emunah is a state of understanding; bitachon is a state of trust.
Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the
planet; bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in every situation.



A person can have emunah and not bitachon




So, to clarify the expression that you've probably heard, you are correct in that either you have emunah or not. This is kind of an absolute degree of understanding and appreciation. Either you believe that God is responsible for everything that happens or not. You can't just believe that God is responsible for some things and not for others. The concept of emunah is that God is involved in everything. If you don't believe that, you have a lack of emunah. I think a heretic involved specific stronger action then just a lack of emunah. I.e. this doesn't deny that there is a God, and it doesn't mean that you convince others of the idea. It's that you think that some things, perhaps, happen by God, but not other things. A heretic denies that God is involved in anything at all.



Now bitachon - yes, there are definitely levels to this. We see this every day in numerous people. Many people believe that if they invest in Amazon stocks today, that almost guarantees that they will make a profit in a year. What happens when that fails? They mope, they suffer distress, etc. They didn't trust that the ultimate outcome is up to God. They lacked bitachon. Or, opposite, I'm sure you've seen shidduchim break off because someone found a minor flaw in the other and thought that was major to not make the marriage work. If they had a greater level of bitachon, and trusted that God decides the outcome, they might have continued the shidduch.



In summary, I think people really mean to say "My level of bitachon is not great; I need to work on that." It is, possible that they were referring to "emunah", but, as I explained, above, it seems that emunah doesn't have degrees or partiality.






share|improve this answer













Chaim, welcome to Mi Yodeya.



I am not overly familiar with the changing nuances of "yeshivish", so I can't say that this particular phrase is something that I have heard verbatim. But, in addressing the concept implied by your question, you may want to gain some clarity between two similar terms - bitachon and emunah.



There are numerous articles on this topic, but I think this summary from "The Shmuz" is good:




The Rambam defines emunah as the knowledge that HASHEM created and
continues to run all of Creation. Simply put, nothing can exist and no
activity can occur without HASHEM.



Bitachon, however, is a quite different. The Chovos Halevovos defines
bitachon as trusting in HASHEM. It is a sense of relying on HASHEM to
watch over and protect me, as if to say, “I take my heavy burden and
place it on HASHEM.” While I am responsible to be proactive, I am not
in charge of the outcome, and I am not the determinant of the results.
I rely on HASHEM to care for me.



Emunah is a state of understanding; bitachon is a state of trust.
Emunah means knowing that HASHEM is involved in every activity on the
planet; bitachon means trusting in HASHEM in every situation.



A person can have emunah and not bitachon




So, to clarify the expression that you've probably heard, you are correct in that either you have emunah or not. This is kind of an absolute degree of understanding and appreciation. Either you believe that God is responsible for everything that happens or not. You can't just believe that God is responsible for some things and not for others. The concept of emunah is that God is involved in everything. If you don't believe that, you have a lack of emunah. I think a heretic involved specific stronger action then just a lack of emunah. I.e. this doesn't deny that there is a God, and it doesn't mean that you convince others of the idea. It's that you think that some things, perhaps, happen by God, but not other things. A heretic denies that God is involved in anything at all.



Now bitachon - yes, there are definitely levels to this. We see this every day in numerous people. Many people believe that if they invest in Amazon stocks today, that almost guarantees that they will make a profit in a year. What happens when that fails? They mope, they suffer distress, etc. They didn't trust that the ultimate outcome is up to God. They lacked bitachon. Or, opposite, I'm sure you've seen shidduchim break off because someone found a minor flaw in the other and thought that was major to not make the marriage work. If they had a greater level of bitachon, and trusted that God decides the outcome, they might have continued the shidduch.



In summary, I think people really mean to say "My level of bitachon is not great; I need to work on that." It is, possible that they were referring to "emunah", but, as I explained, above, it seems that emunah doesn't have degrees or partiality.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 hours ago









DanFDanF

35.5k529137




35.5k529137












  • Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago

















  • Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago
















Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

– Chaim
1 hour ago





Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding how the word "trust" relates to bitachon. Is there anybody that thinks God has a reason not to do what He usually does? Even after this distinction between emuna and bitachon I still have a hard time understanding how it's possible to have different levels of bitachon. How is it possible for you to believe someone always does something but not "trust" them that they will?

– Chaim
1 hour ago











0














I'll give you an example: It is very clearly seen here in Jerusalem's HMOs when the residents of all kinds bring their kids to vaccinate. First, come the secular, then Kipah Sruga, then the Litvakes, then the Chassidishers and the last (but not least) the Yerushalmi. And some never come.



And we can rate them clearly according to their level of Bitachon in Hashem. So each previous group can say "I don't have that level of Bitachon of the next group ... to put my kids in danger".






share|improve this answer























  • Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago















0














I'll give you an example: It is very clearly seen here in Jerusalem's HMOs when the residents of all kinds bring their kids to vaccinate. First, come the secular, then Kipah Sruga, then the Litvakes, then the Chassidishers and the last (but not least) the Yerushalmi. And some never come.



And we can rate them clearly according to their level of Bitachon in Hashem. So each previous group can say "I don't have that level of Bitachon of the next group ... to put my kids in danger".






share|improve this answer























  • Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago













0












0








0







I'll give you an example: It is very clearly seen here in Jerusalem's HMOs when the residents of all kinds bring their kids to vaccinate. First, come the secular, then Kipah Sruga, then the Litvakes, then the Chassidishers and the last (but not least) the Yerushalmi. And some never come.



And we can rate them clearly according to their level of Bitachon in Hashem. So each previous group can say "I don't have that level of Bitachon of the next group ... to put my kids in danger".






share|improve this answer













I'll give you an example: It is very clearly seen here in Jerusalem's HMOs when the residents of all kinds bring their kids to vaccinate. First, come the secular, then Kipah Sruga, then the Litvakes, then the Chassidishers and the last (but not least) the Yerushalmi. And some never come.



And we can rate them clearly according to their level of Bitachon in Hashem. So each previous group can say "I don't have that level of Bitachon of the next group ... to put my kids in danger".







share|improve this answer












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answered 1 hour ago









Al BerkoAl Berko

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  • Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago

















  • Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

    – Chaim
    1 hour ago
















Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

– Chaim
1 hour ago





Lol I was going to write vaccines as an example but I figured I'll stick away from the controversy

– Chaim
1 hour ago



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