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Could gravitational lensing be used to protect a spaceship from a laser?


How/would the distance from a planet to its star affect the strength of its gravitational pull?Could I manipulate gravity to make my spaceship move?What material should be used for a spaceship that doesn't need to re-enter?Explaining Stealthy Space WarfareCould natural armor plating protect a creature from radiation?Can electronic warfare be used to bring space combat into visual range and protect fighters/bombers?What light colors/bulbs should be used inside a spaceship?Locking an old spaceship from the outside?A system for transporting people from a spinning ring up a conduit to a spaceshipHow to protect astronauts and spacecraft from solar flares on long space journey?













5












$begingroup$


Suppose Ship A is being targeted by Ship B, which intends to use a laser weapon in an attempt to destroy Ship A.



Ship A has special technology that allows it to alter gravity (mainly used for generating artificial gravity for the crew and to lessen the effects of inertia when changing direction), but this device also allows it to increase the gravitational pull of the ship, as if it had more mass.



If Ship B points it’s laser weapon directly at Ship A and fires, and Ship A created a gravity well (similarly to an interdictor from Star Wars), could the gravity produced by the ship shield it from the laser by redirecting it via gravitational lensing?



And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
    $endgroup$
    – notovny
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
    $endgroup$
    – Demigan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Mooing Duck
    3 hours ago















5












$begingroup$


Suppose Ship A is being targeted by Ship B, which intends to use a laser weapon in an attempt to destroy Ship A.



Ship A has special technology that allows it to alter gravity (mainly used for generating artificial gravity for the crew and to lessen the effects of inertia when changing direction), but this device also allows it to increase the gravitational pull of the ship, as if it had more mass.



If Ship B points it’s laser weapon directly at Ship A and fires, and Ship A created a gravity well (similarly to an interdictor from Star Wars), could the gravity produced by the ship shield it from the laser by redirecting it via gravitational lensing?



And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
    $endgroup$
    – notovny
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
    $endgroup$
    – Demigan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Mooing Duck
    3 hours ago













5












5








5





$begingroup$


Suppose Ship A is being targeted by Ship B, which intends to use a laser weapon in an attempt to destroy Ship A.



Ship A has special technology that allows it to alter gravity (mainly used for generating artificial gravity for the crew and to lessen the effects of inertia when changing direction), but this device also allows it to increase the gravitational pull of the ship, as if it had more mass.



If Ship B points it’s laser weapon directly at Ship A and fires, and Ship A created a gravity well (similarly to an interdictor from Star Wars), could the gravity produced by the ship shield it from the laser by redirecting it via gravitational lensing?



And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Suppose Ship A is being targeted by Ship B, which intends to use a laser weapon in an attempt to destroy Ship A.



Ship A has special technology that allows it to alter gravity (mainly used for generating artificial gravity for the crew and to lessen the effects of inertia when changing direction), but this device also allows it to increase the gravitational pull of the ship, as if it had more mass.



If Ship B points it’s laser weapon directly at Ship A and fires, and Ship A created a gravity well (similarly to an interdictor from Star Wars), could the gravity produced by the ship shield it from the laser by redirecting it via gravitational lensing?



And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?







science-based spaceships gravity astrophysics






share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago









Challenger5

32118




32118






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asked 8 hours ago









Dan PetitDan Petit

261




261




New contributor




Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Dan Petit is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
    $endgroup$
    – notovny
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
    $endgroup$
    – Demigan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Mooing Duck
    3 hours ago












  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
    $endgroup$
    – notovny
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
    $endgroup$
    – Demigan
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Mooing Duck
    3 hours ago







3




3




$begingroup$
The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
$endgroup$
– notovny
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
The Impeller Wedges of David Weber's Honorverse work in this fashion to protect starships, but it's way outside the realm of "science-based", and more of a genre convention to make space battle tactics work the way Weber wanted.
$endgroup$
– notovny
8 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
$endgroup$
– Demigan
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Yes. If you have very large Black holes you can shift around your ship this is possible. Why you would fear a laser by that time is a different question
$endgroup$
– Demigan
7 hours ago












$begingroup$
Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
$endgroup$
– Mooing Duck
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
Gravitational lensing is caused by light that would have missed, but by a small amount. Increasing the gravity would pull more light toward the ship, making it easier to hit.
$endgroup$
– Mooing Duck
3 hours ago










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















17












$begingroup$

There are several problems with this.



First of all, when someone fires a laser at you, you aren't going to know it until it hits you, so this would only work if Ship A were CONTINUOUSLY creating a gravity well in between itself and ship B. You couldn't use it reactively without letting it hit you first, although you could potentially limit the damage.




And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?




No, but in order to do this you'd have to be able to artificially CREATE a black hole, and a pretty massive one at that, in order to deflect a laser beam any meaningful distance. At that point it'd be simpler to just create the singularity right on top of Ship B and destroy it rather than mess around deflecting laser beams.



TLDR: If you can create a gravity field powerful enough to deflect a laser beam, you're so powerful you don't have to worry about deflecting laser beams.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
    $endgroup$
    – TheLuckless
    8 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
    $endgroup$
    – Display Name
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
    $endgroup$
    – Ray
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
    $endgroup$
    – Display Name
    2 hours ago











  • $begingroup$
    @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
    $endgroup$
    – Aethenosity
    37 mins ago



















3












$begingroup$

Gravity lensing works for light paths skimming the attractor. For light paths crossing the attractor the impact would not be avoided.



enter image description here



So, your device would simply deviate the laser passing around the ship, not the laser hitting in.



Basically, it would work on protecting the ship only if the enemy had a poor aiming.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
    $endgroup$
    – Morris The Cat
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
    $endgroup$
    – Renan
    2 hours ago


















2












$begingroup$

Depends on the range and timing.



  • Ship B tracks ship A with visual sensors. Ship A has this "gravity shield" running, so the apparent position of A will be distorted.

  • Ship B fires a laser at the apparent position of A, and the laser beam is distorted the same way the detection is distorted. The laser hits the actual position of A.

What you describe might work if the distances are high enough to "re-focus" the "gravity shield" between firing and impact. In that case, wouldn't there be time for conventional evasive maneuvering? So your idea calls for long range combined with an inability to dodge. Even with gravity manipulation technology, does A require fuel or reaction mass? Or is it really large?






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    1












    $begingroup$

    Building off Morris The Cat's answer (because I can't comment)



    If you can effectively create a black hole to "lens" a laser attack, you can just put said black hole in the path of the laser attack and have the black hole capture the light completely.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
      $endgroup$
      – Liam Morris
      2 hours ago


















    0












    $begingroup$

    L.Dutch is correct in his answer. Increasing the mass of the ship would be useless if the enemy has good aim. It will still be hit at the center.



    You could then be smart and fire a mass effect missile. The missile itself becomes more massive and deflects the laser. But how much mass would you need?



    Einstein himself calculated that the Sun works as a lens with a focal distance of 542 AU's. The formula is:



    $$ lensing space angle = frac4GMrc^2$$



    Where $M$ s the mass of the lens, $G$ is a well known constant, $r$ is the distance from the center of mass and $c$ is the speed of light.



    So at for one Earth mass, if the beam passes by the mass at a distance of 100 km:



    $$ frac4 times G times 6 times 10^2710^5 times (3 times 10^8)^2 $$



    That equals a whopping 2,666,666.666 x $G$ degrees. However, G has a 10-11 built into it, so it works out to a fraction that is closer to $frac1100,000$ degrees. You'd have to go very far for that to cause a miss.



    Now think about what you just did. If you are able to summon the mass of an Earth to use as defensive measure, don't use it as a lens, use it as a shield. The Earth has a radius of around 6,400 kilometers. It's more than enough to hide behind if it comes trailing at you, and massive enough that you should not be hit by the laser.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      0












      $begingroup$

      On the other hand, dispensing a cloud of aluminum foil or dust between you and the attacker would also render the laser harmless. Much lower level of entry.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Rodney Barbati is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      $endgroup$








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
        $endgroup$
        – Liam Morris
        1 hour ago












      Your Answer





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      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes








      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      17












      $begingroup$

      There are several problems with this.



      First of all, when someone fires a laser at you, you aren't going to know it until it hits you, so this would only work if Ship A were CONTINUOUSLY creating a gravity well in between itself and ship B. You couldn't use it reactively without letting it hit you first, although you could potentially limit the damage.




      And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?




      No, but in order to do this you'd have to be able to artificially CREATE a black hole, and a pretty massive one at that, in order to deflect a laser beam any meaningful distance. At that point it'd be simpler to just create the singularity right on top of Ship B and destroy it rather than mess around deflecting laser beams.



      TLDR: If you can create a gravity field powerful enough to deflect a laser beam, you're so powerful you don't have to worry about deflecting laser beams.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
        $endgroup$
        – TheLuckless
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        4 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
        $endgroup$
        – Ray
        2 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        2 hours ago











      • $begingroup$
        @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
        $endgroup$
        – Aethenosity
        37 mins ago
















      17












      $begingroup$

      There are several problems with this.



      First of all, when someone fires a laser at you, you aren't going to know it until it hits you, so this would only work if Ship A were CONTINUOUSLY creating a gravity well in between itself and ship B. You couldn't use it reactively without letting it hit you first, although you could potentially limit the damage.




      And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?




      No, but in order to do this you'd have to be able to artificially CREATE a black hole, and a pretty massive one at that, in order to deflect a laser beam any meaningful distance. At that point it'd be simpler to just create the singularity right on top of Ship B and destroy it rather than mess around deflecting laser beams.



      TLDR: If you can create a gravity field powerful enough to deflect a laser beam, you're so powerful you don't have to worry about deflecting laser beams.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
        $endgroup$
        – TheLuckless
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        4 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
        $endgroup$
        – Ray
        2 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        2 hours ago











      • $begingroup$
        @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
        $endgroup$
        – Aethenosity
        37 mins ago














      17












      17








      17





      $begingroup$

      There are several problems with this.



      First of all, when someone fires a laser at you, you aren't going to know it until it hits you, so this would only work if Ship A were CONTINUOUSLY creating a gravity well in between itself and ship B. You couldn't use it reactively without letting it hit you first, although you could potentially limit the damage.




      And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?




      No, but in order to do this you'd have to be able to artificially CREATE a black hole, and a pretty massive one at that, in order to deflect a laser beam any meaningful distance. At that point it'd be simpler to just create the singularity right on top of Ship B and destroy it rather than mess around deflecting laser beams.



      TLDR: If you can create a gravity field powerful enough to deflect a laser beam, you're so powerful you don't have to worry about deflecting laser beams.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      There are several problems with this.



      First of all, when someone fires a laser at you, you aren't going to know it until it hits you, so this would only work if Ship A were CONTINUOUSLY creating a gravity well in between itself and ship B. You couldn't use it reactively without letting it hit you first, although you could potentially limit the damage.




      And if so, would using this trick inadvertently (on the captain’s part) turn Ship A into a black hole?




      No, but in order to do this you'd have to be able to artificially CREATE a black hole, and a pretty massive one at that, in order to deflect a laser beam any meaningful distance. At that point it'd be simpler to just create the singularity right on top of Ship B and destroy it rather than mess around deflecting laser beams.



      TLDR: If you can create a gravity field powerful enough to deflect a laser beam, you're so powerful you don't have to worry about deflecting laser beams.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 8 hours ago









      Morris The CatMorris The Cat

      3,739625




      3,739625







      • 2




        $begingroup$
        This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
        $endgroup$
        – TheLuckless
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        4 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
        $endgroup$
        – Ray
        2 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        2 hours ago











      • $begingroup$
        @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
        $endgroup$
        – Aethenosity
        37 mins ago













      • 2




        $begingroup$
        This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
        $endgroup$
        – TheLuckless
        8 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        4 hours ago






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
        $endgroup$
        – Ray
        2 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
        $endgroup$
        – Display Name
        2 hours ago











      • $begingroup$
        @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
        $endgroup$
        – Aethenosity
        37 mins ago








      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
      $endgroup$
      – TheLuckless
      8 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      This is an excellent example of deep exploration of the ramification of a fictional tech/power - "Tech X does Y... But if we explore it a little more it becomes obvious that doing Z with it instead is infinitely more useful..." Something many sci-fi and fantasy writers fail to do properly.
      $endgroup$
      – TheLuckless
      8 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
      $endgroup$
      – Display Name
      4 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      What if you can create a black hole up to 10km away from your ship, but the enemy ship is firing its laser from 11km?
      $endgroup$
      – Display Name
      4 hours ago




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
      $endgroup$
      – Ray
      2 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @DisplayName I'm not sure how much mass is needed to produce sufficient lensing over a distance of mere kilometers, but if you need at least 0.4 solar masses, the enemy is still inside the event horizon. If you need 3.8 solar masses, you are also inside the event horizon. Coincidentally, 3.8 solar masses is the mass of the smallest known black hole.
      $endgroup$
      – Ray
      2 hours ago












      $begingroup$
      If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
      $endgroup$
      – Display Name
      2 hours ago





      $begingroup$
      If the radius of the event horizon was comparable to the radius of the laser beam it wouldn't even need to lens. At 1/10th earth mass the radius is about 1mm. Lensing would serve to reduce the required radius (and thereby the mass) because you could scatter the light around the black hole instead of having to absorb all of it. A small black hole in the center of the laser beam would serve to de-focus it, turning a searing beam into gentle illumination.
      $endgroup$
      – Display Name
      2 hours ago













      $begingroup$
      @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
      $endgroup$
      – Aethenosity
      37 mins ago





      $begingroup$
      @DisplayName but still, in that case, why not just put the black hole on the other ship? And why not simply use the mass you're moving around to just block it without creating a black hole. A relatively dense cloud of dirt would work pretty well, and would be way more feasible
      $endgroup$
      – Aethenosity
      37 mins ago












      3












      $begingroup$

      Gravity lensing works for light paths skimming the attractor. For light paths crossing the attractor the impact would not be avoided.



      enter image description here



      So, your device would simply deviate the laser passing around the ship, not the laser hitting in.



      Basically, it would work on protecting the ship only if the enemy had a poor aiming.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
        $endgroup$
        – Morris The Cat
        7 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
        $endgroup$
        – Renan
        2 hours ago















      3












      $begingroup$

      Gravity lensing works for light paths skimming the attractor. For light paths crossing the attractor the impact would not be avoided.



      enter image description here



      So, your device would simply deviate the laser passing around the ship, not the laser hitting in.



      Basically, it would work on protecting the ship only if the enemy had a poor aiming.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$












      • $begingroup$
        You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
        $endgroup$
        – Morris The Cat
        7 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
        $endgroup$
        – Renan
        2 hours ago













      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$

      Gravity lensing works for light paths skimming the attractor. For light paths crossing the attractor the impact would not be avoided.



      enter image description here



      So, your device would simply deviate the laser passing around the ship, not the laser hitting in.



      Basically, it would work on protecting the ship only if the enemy had a poor aiming.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Gravity lensing works for light paths skimming the attractor. For light paths crossing the attractor the impact would not be avoided.



      enter image description here



      So, your device would simply deviate the laser passing around the ship, not the laser hitting in.



      Basically, it would work on protecting the ship only if the enemy had a poor aiming.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 8 hours ago









      L.DutchL.Dutch

      90.1k29209436




      90.1k29209436











      • $begingroup$
        You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
        $endgroup$
        – Morris The Cat
        7 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
        $endgroup$
        – Renan
        2 hours ago
















      • $begingroup$
        You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
        $endgroup$
        – Morris The Cat
        7 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
        $endgroup$
        – Renan
        2 hours ago















      $begingroup$
      You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
      $endgroup$
      – Morris The Cat
      7 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      You're really just objecting to his use of the term 'lensing' though. His idea would still WORK, you'd just put the attractor right next to the direct path between Ship A and Ship B; you would just call it gravitational deflection instead of lensing.
      $endgroup$
      – Morris The Cat
      7 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
      $endgroup$
      – Renan
      2 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @MorridTheCat OP specifi ally said his device alters the gravity of the ship. The ship is the attractor.
      $endgroup$
      – Renan
      2 hours ago











      2












      $begingroup$

      Depends on the range and timing.



      • Ship B tracks ship A with visual sensors. Ship A has this "gravity shield" running, so the apparent position of A will be distorted.

      • Ship B fires a laser at the apparent position of A, and the laser beam is distorted the same way the detection is distorted. The laser hits the actual position of A.

      What you describe might work if the distances are high enough to "re-focus" the "gravity shield" between firing and impact. In that case, wouldn't there be time for conventional evasive maneuvering? So your idea calls for long range combined with an inability to dodge. Even with gravity manipulation technology, does A require fuel or reaction mass? Or is it really large?






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$

















        2












        $begingroup$

        Depends on the range and timing.



        • Ship B tracks ship A with visual sensors. Ship A has this "gravity shield" running, so the apparent position of A will be distorted.

        • Ship B fires a laser at the apparent position of A, and the laser beam is distorted the same way the detection is distorted. The laser hits the actual position of A.

        What you describe might work if the distances are high enough to "re-focus" the "gravity shield" between firing and impact. In that case, wouldn't there be time for conventional evasive maneuvering? So your idea calls for long range combined with an inability to dodge. Even with gravity manipulation technology, does A require fuel or reaction mass? Or is it really large?






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$















          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          Depends on the range and timing.



          • Ship B tracks ship A with visual sensors. Ship A has this "gravity shield" running, so the apparent position of A will be distorted.

          • Ship B fires a laser at the apparent position of A, and the laser beam is distorted the same way the detection is distorted. The laser hits the actual position of A.

          What you describe might work if the distances are high enough to "re-focus" the "gravity shield" between firing and impact. In that case, wouldn't there be time for conventional evasive maneuvering? So your idea calls for long range combined with an inability to dodge. Even with gravity manipulation technology, does A require fuel or reaction mass? Or is it really large?






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Depends on the range and timing.



          • Ship B tracks ship A with visual sensors. Ship A has this "gravity shield" running, so the apparent position of A will be distorted.

          • Ship B fires a laser at the apparent position of A, and the laser beam is distorted the same way the detection is distorted. The laser hits the actual position of A.

          What you describe might work if the distances are high enough to "re-focus" the "gravity shield" between firing and impact. In that case, wouldn't there be time for conventional evasive maneuvering? So your idea calls for long range combined with an inability to dodge. Even with gravity manipulation technology, does A require fuel or reaction mass? Or is it really large?







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 8 hours ago









          o.m.o.m.

          62.8k791204




          62.8k791204





















              1












              $begingroup$

              Building off Morris The Cat's answer (because I can't comment)



              If you can effectively create a black hole to "lens" a laser attack, you can just put said black hole in the path of the laser attack and have the black hole capture the light completely.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
                $endgroup$
                – Liam Morris
                2 hours ago















              1












              $begingroup$

              Building off Morris The Cat's answer (because I can't comment)



              If you can effectively create a black hole to "lens" a laser attack, you can just put said black hole in the path of the laser attack and have the black hole capture the light completely.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
                $endgroup$
                – Liam Morris
                2 hours ago













              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              Building off Morris The Cat's answer (because I can't comment)



              If you can effectively create a black hole to "lens" a laser attack, you can just put said black hole in the path of the laser attack and have the black hole capture the light completely.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              $endgroup$



              Building off Morris The Cat's answer (because I can't comment)



              If you can effectively create a black hole to "lens" a laser attack, you can just put said black hole in the path of the laser attack and have the black hole capture the light completely.







              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer






              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              answered 3 hours ago









              sekohnkesekohnke

              111




              111




              New contributor




              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.





              New contributor





              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.






              sekohnke is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
                $endgroup$
                – Liam Morris
                2 hours ago












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
                $endgroup$
                – Liam Morris
                2 hours ago







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
              $endgroup$
              – Liam Morris
              2 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent yet, please take a Tour of our site. There is a reason why new users are not allowed to comment, that being to prevent ‘spam accounts’ from being able to comment on every question and answer. This being said, answers are not meant to be a substitute for getting around being unable to comment yet and this may be deleted. If you post an answer that can stand on its own and recieves upvotes, you will soon be able to overcome being unable to comment.
              $endgroup$
              – Liam Morris
              2 hours ago











              0












              $begingroup$

              L.Dutch is correct in his answer. Increasing the mass of the ship would be useless if the enemy has good aim. It will still be hit at the center.



              You could then be smart and fire a mass effect missile. The missile itself becomes more massive and deflects the laser. But how much mass would you need?



              Einstein himself calculated that the Sun works as a lens with a focal distance of 542 AU's. The formula is:



              $$ lensing space angle = frac4GMrc^2$$



              Where $M$ s the mass of the lens, $G$ is a well known constant, $r$ is the distance from the center of mass and $c$ is the speed of light.



              So at for one Earth mass, if the beam passes by the mass at a distance of 100 km:



              $$ frac4 times G times 6 times 10^2710^5 times (3 times 10^8)^2 $$



              That equals a whopping 2,666,666.666 x $G$ degrees. However, G has a 10-11 built into it, so it works out to a fraction that is closer to $frac1100,000$ degrees. You'd have to go very far for that to cause a miss.



              Now think about what you just did. If you are able to summon the mass of an Earth to use as defensive measure, don't use it as a lens, use it as a shield. The Earth has a radius of around 6,400 kilometers. It's more than enough to hide behind if it comes trailing at you, and massive enough that you should not be hit by the laser.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                0












                $begingroup$

                L.Dutch is correct in his answer. Increasing the mass of the ship would be useless if the enemy has good aim. It will still be hit at the center.



                You could then be smart and fire a mass effect missile. The missile itself becomes more massive and deflects the laser. But how much mass would you need?



                Einstein himself calculated that the Sun works as a lens with a focal distance of 542 AU's. The formula is:



                $$ lensing space angle = frac4GMrc^2$$



                Where $M$ s the mass of the lens, $G$ is a well known constant, $r$ is the distance from the center of mass and $c$ is the speed of light.



                So at for one Earth mass, if the beam passes by the mass at a distance of 100 km:



                $$ frac4 times G times 6 times 10^2710^5 times (3 times 10^8)^2 $$



                That equals a whopping 2,666,666.666 x $G$ degrees. However, G has a 10-11 built into it, so it works out to a fraction that is closer to $frac1100,000$ degrees. You'd have to go very far for that to cause a miss.



                Now think about what you just did. If you are able to summon the mass of an Earth to use as defensive measure, don't use it as a lens, use it as a shield. The Earth has a radius of around 6,400 kilometers. It's more than enough to hide behind if it comes trailing at you, and massive enough that you should not be hit by the laser.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  L.Dutch is correct in his answer. Increasing the mass of the ship would be useless if the enemy has good aim. It will still be hit at the center.



                  You could then be smart and fire a mass effect missile. The missile itself becomes more massive and deflects the laser. But how much mass would you need?



                  Einstein himself calculated that the Sun works as a lens with a focal distance of 542 AU's. The formula is:



                  $$ lensing space angle = frac4GMrc^2$$



                  Where $M$ s the mass of the lens, $G$ is a well known constant, $r$ is the distance from the center of mass and $c$ is the speed of light.



                  So at for one Earth mass, if the beam passes by the mass at a distance of 100 km:



                  $$ frac4 times G times 6 times 10^2710^5 times (3 times 10^8)^2 $$



                  That equals a whopping 2,666,666.666 x $G$ degrees. However, G has a 10-11 built into it, so it works out to a fraction that is closer to $frac1100,000$ degrees. You'd have to go very far for that to cause a miss.



                  Now think about what you just did. If you are able to summon the mass of an Earth to use as defensive measure, don't use it as a lens, use it as a shield. The Earth has a radius of around 6,400 kilometers. It's more than enough to hide behind if it comes trailing at you, and massive enough that you should not be hit by the laser.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  L.Dutch is correct in his answer. Increasing the mass of the ship would be useless if the enemy has good aim. It will still be hit at the center.



                  You could then be smart and fire a mass effect missile. The missile itself becomes more massive and deflects the laser. But how much mass would you need?



                  Einstein himself calculated that the Sun works as a lens with a focal distance of 542 AU's. The formula is:



                  $$ lensing space angle = frac4GMrc^2$$



                  Where $M$ s the mass of the lens, $G$ is a well known constant, $r$ is the distance from the center of mass and $c$ is the speed of light.



                  So at for one Earth mass, if the beam passes by the mass at a distance of 100 km:



                  $$ frac4 times G times 6 times 10^2710^5 times (3 times 10^8)^2 $$



                  That equals a whopping 2,666,666.666 x $G$ degrees. However, G has a 10-11 built into it, so it works out to a fraction that is closer to $frac1100,000$ degrees. You'd have to go very far for that to cause a miss.



                  Now think about what you just did. If you are able to summon the mass of an Earth to use as defensive measure, don't use it as a lens, use it as a shield. The Earth has a radius of around 6,400 kilometers. It's more than enough to hide behind if it comes trailing at you, and massive enough that you should not be hit by the laser.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 2 hours ago

























                  answered 2 hours ago









                  RenanRenan

                  52.4k15119261




                  52.4k15119261





















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      On the other hand, dispensing a cloud of aluminum foil or dust between you and the attacker would also render the laser harmless. Much lower level of entry.






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Rodney Barbati is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      $endgroup$








                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Liam Morris
                        1 hour ago
















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      On the other hand, dispensing a cloud of aluminum foil or dust between you and the attacker would also render the laser harmless. Much lower level of entry.






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Rodney Barbati is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      $endgroup$








                      • 2




                        $begingroup$
                        Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Liam Morris
                        1 hour ago














                      0












                      0








                      0





                      $begingroup$

                      On the other hand, dispensing a cloud of aluminum foil or dust between you and the attacker would also render the laser harmless. Much lower level of entry.






                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Rodney Barbati is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      $endgroup$



                      On the other hand, dispensing a cloud of aluminum foil or dust between you and the attacker would also render the laser harmless. Much lower level of entry.







                      share|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      Rodney Barbati is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                        $begingroup$
                        Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
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                      2




                      $begingroup$
                      Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Liam Morris
                      1 hour ago





                      $begingroup$
                      Hi, welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! If you havent already, please read through our Tour page. Your answer seems a little ‘thin on the ground’ which might mean it will be deleted for lacking enough content, can you please edit it to explain how and why this could work? Also, your answer is not currently answering the question. Can you state if you think the OP’s idea would work or not and offer an alternative option (which you already have done) if it would not work.
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                      1 hour ago











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